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Old 07-27-2015, 12:06 PM   #61
MikeB1972
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WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!!!


If you really think you can find me offering pirated ebooks on MobileRead, please do not make snide insinuations. Report that post to a moderator. I will be permanently banned from MobileRead in 30 minutes or less.

Thing is, it isn't true and I can't be banned (but apparently I can still be blamed) for things I haven't done...
It's possible they misunderstood if you talked about downloading from the mobileread library?
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Old 07-27-2015, 01:04 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by eschwartz View Post
WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!!!


If you really think you can find me offering pirated ebooks on MobileRead, please do not make snide insinuations. Report that post to a moderator. I will be permanently banned from MobileRead in 30 minutes or less.

Thing is, it isn't true and I can't be banned (but apparently I can still be blamed) for things I haven't done...
Here is the quote from the Go set a Watchman thread:

Quote:
I PMed you with an Amazon library loan redemption link.
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...7&postcount=98

Did I mis-interpret something?
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Old 07-27-2015, 01:11 PM   #63
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Oh, sorry. It appears the real problem is that you simply have no clue what this thread is about.
Apologies for the confusion...
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Old 07-27-2015, 01:24 PM   #64
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I think that if you share your ebooks with one or two friends, then you have indeed pirated them. ...
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Originally Posted by eschwartz View Post
Oh, sorry. It appears the real problem is that you simply have no clue what this thread is about.
Apologies for the confusion...
i'm trying to understand what you mean? Didn't You shared your library Ebook with a "friend"?
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Old 07-27-2015, 01:53 PM   #65
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If you cannot tell the difference between "pirating" an ebook by illegally giving out copies of *your* ebooks (keeping in mind that ebook piracy is fundamentally defined by the multiplication of legal copies into illegal extra copies), and offering to lend someone the use of your library card (keeping in mind that that means *you* never had that book at all)... then either you are being disingenuous or you are beyond my help.

As you have put me in a really bad mood, I am not going to bother discussing it with you anymore either way.
Goodbye.
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Old 07-27-2015, 02:10 PM   #66
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i'm trying to understand what you mean? Didn't You shared your library Ebook with a "friend"?
eschwartz has good cause to be angry with you. Your allegation is a serious one, and though I doubt you meant it maliciously you should have taken more care instead of jumping to conclusions. A simple search would have revealed to you that on eligible books you have purchased Amazon allows you to make a single loan to anyone. It seems that this is what eschwartz probably did. http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custom...deId=200549320. I haven't taken the trouble to determine whether the book is available to be lent this way. However, I have no doubt that there is no question whatsoever of piracy.

Although I don't think you meant any harm a retraction and apology is in order.
Last edited by darryl; 07-27-2015 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 07-27-2015, 02:50 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by eschwartz View Post
If you cannot tell the difference between "pirating" an ebook by illegally giving out copies of *your* ebooks (keeping in mind that ebook piracy is fundamentally defined by the multiplication of legal copies into illegal extra copies), and offering to lend someone the use of your library card (keeping in mind that that means *you* never had that book at all)... then either you are being disingenuous or you are beyond my help.

As you have put me in a really bad mood, I am not going to bother discussing it with you anymore either way.
Goodbye.
I see some very clear distinctions that may make for interesting discussion, but all you want to do is yell and throw out hyperbole ("disingenuous", "beyond help", IMO.)

IMO, there is a clear difference between lending someone your "library card" and link to an ebook from your elibrary account and sharing a physical book with a friend. Some people may find no difference, some people may think they are different, ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by darryl View Post
eschwartz has good cause to be angry with you. Your allegation is a serious one, and though I doubt you meant it maliciously you should have taken more care instead of jumping to conclusions. A simple search would have revealed to you that on eligible books you have purchased Amazon allows you to make a single loan to anyone. It seems that this is what eschwartz probably did. http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custom...deId=200549320. I haven't taken the trouble to determine whether the book is available to be lent this way. However, I have no doubt that there is no question whatsoever of piracy.

Although I don't think you meant any harm a retraction and apology is in order.
So let me get this clear... I ask what seems (to me) like a legitimate question, eschwartz starts "YELLING" and insulting, and I owe an apology? Daryll, did you notice how eschwartz isn't talking about "Amazon lending", but about "library cards". Maybe someone else owes an apology, daryll?
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Old 07-28-2015, 01:20 AM   #68
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I see some very clear distinctions that may make for interesting discussion, but all you want to do is yell and throw out hyperbole ("disingenuous", "beyond help", IMO.)

IMO, there is a clear difference between lending someone your "library card" and link to an ebook from your elibrary account and sharing a physical book with a friend. Some people may find no difference, some people may think they are different, ...


So let me get this clear... I ask what seems (to me) like a legitimate question, eschwartz starts "YELLING" and insulting, and I owe an apology? Daryll, did you notice how eschwartz isn't talking about "Amazon lending", but about "library cards". Maybe someone else owes an apology, daryll?
You made serious allegations without a reasonable basis and without bothering to check. Further discussion seems to be pointless.
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Old 07-28-2015, 06:19 AM   #69
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You made serious allegations without a reasonable basis and without bothering to check. Further discussion seems to be pointless.
All I did was ask a question.

He than ranted, saying he never did what I asked.

I than provided a link quoting him sharing his library book with a "friend".

After ranting and dancing around the question, he clarified his thoughts on the subject.

Than he ranted and left the playground with his ball.

I will gladly apologize; eschwartz and daryll, I'm sorry you feel the way you do.
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Old 07-28-2015, 09:40 AM   #70
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Everyone involved in this thread: Please take a step back and take a deep breath - PLEASE.

This is a useful thread for further discussion - if everyone calms down.
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Old 07-28-2015, 11:55 AM   #71
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Everyone involved in this thread: Please take a step back and take a deep breath - PLEASE.

This is a useful thread for further discussion - if everyone calms down.
Thank you and noted.
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Old 07-28-2015, 12:07 PM   #72
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I'm saying that I think it's entirely reasonable that there should be a mechanism for tracing the source of a pirated book, and that it's your responsibility to take reasonable care of them, for example by not giving away copies of them in violation of the licence agreement. Having them stolen is of course not your fault, but can you give me one example of that happening?
Phones are lost and stolen all the time, so I don't think the scenario is far-fetched.
My point is there should be no DRM except in cases of library loans or subscription services. I think there is a case for DRM in certain instances, but not for ebook purchases. Piracy will always exist, the way to lessen its affect is not to criminalize consumers by forcing them to strip DRM to control and use purchased ebooks, but by making ebooks affordable, convenient, and easy to use across devices.
In the end I see ebooks going the way of subscription music services. It has already begun, we just need the "Netflix" of ebooks to offer a low price for an ebook service. The current system is unsustainable, the DRM schemes, lock in, rising Amazon monopoly, it is not going to end well for consumers. And I can't believe publishers are all that happy with it, but they are making it worse IMO by forcing DRM on consumers, limiting device use, locking in customers to devices and services that can disappear tomorrow, so you either break DRM and save your ebooks, or pray wherever you bought the ebooks doesn't disappear. And we know that can and does happen.
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Old 07-28-2015, 12:11 PM   #73
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My point is there should be no DRM except in cases of library loans or subscription services. I think there is a case for DRM in certain instances, but not for ebook purchases. Piracy will always exist, the way to lessen its affect is not to criminalize consumers by forcing them to strip DRM to control and use purchased ebooks, but by making ebooks affordable, convenient, and easy to use across devices.
Watermarking does not impose any restrictions on the use of a book; it simply provides an entirely reasonable method of tracing the purchaser of a pirated book, while at the same time giving a disincentive to casual piracy - ie giving away copies of your books to your friends. It's a win-win situation, to my mind.
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Old 07-28-2015, 12:34 PM   #74
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Watermarking does not impose any restrictions on the use of a book; it simply provides an entirely reasonable method of tracing the purchaser of a pirated book, while at the same time giving a disincentive to casual piracy - ie giving away copies of your books to your friends. It's a win-win situation, to my mind.
I will agree with you to this degree--of all the DRM evils, it is the least evil. And I prefer it to other, current schemes. But I think most people who buy, those people who purchase ebooks are not uploading them to Pirate Bay.
A music album costs roughly the same as an ebook. Music and musicians exist without DRM. I see no reason why ebooks and authors could not equally survive and thrive without DRM.
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Old 07-29-2015, 04:27 AM   #75
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this discussion is an eye-opener.
As a (non techie) author, it's an eye opener to realise that people can remove DRM protection from a book once they've purchased it - so it makes DRM ineffective, doesn't it?
I've wondered at Smashwords not using DRM but the ethos/ambiance of the site is not the same as Amazon and as an author I would trust buyers more who purchase from Smashwords- or am I living in a dream world?

by the way, apologies in advance from coming in at such a naïve level...
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