Unlocking the Gates of Alexandria: DRM, Competition and Access to E-Books

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by barryem

I suspect that a lot of DRM policies are either decided by publishers or decided by retailers to please the publishers, and that the retailers don't feel they have a lot of choice.

snip

My guess is that most retailers would love to drop DRM. I don't know that but I'll be surprised if it isn't true.

snip

I hope DRM goes away. It's a pain. But I suspect it'll be the publishers who decide.

It is the publishers who decide (which is why it's optional in all of the stores). Stores had to have an acceptable DRM system for many publishers to allow sales of their books.

As to retailers loving to drop DRM I don't know. It certainly helps someone like Amazon to have that extra lock in on a lot of books to keep the average customer in their ecosystem and not trying elsewhere. Would reduced support costs offset the possible ramifications of opening the system up more? I don't know. The publishers insistence on DRM certainly is part of what helped Amazon do so well when Kindle launched (combined with the ecosystem they developed).

[SleepyBob]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Well... you *may* have heard of an interesting program called "calibre".

I was wondering if that was what you meant. However, "Amazon is demonstrably happy for you to read your EPUBs...on the Kindle" is a far cry from "Amazon is happy to let you read mobi format books that you sideload on the kindle". But, okay.

[eschwartz]

If you really feel that Amazon doesn't know about calibre, then I assure you they do know of kindlegen and Send to Kindle for PC, at least.

I personally don't consider it a leap to say that Amazon allowing sideloading equates to not caring if you convert from EPUB first.

[hlk123]

Hello

I'm willing and able f.e. to pay USD 30 for a 500pp PDF ebook.

In a DRM/Adobe ecosystem I pay money to the publishers and NOT to Adobe.

Recently I'd a problem with my Adobe-ID. Adobe will/can not help me. Fortunately the publisher changed the PDF ebook from DRM to watermark.
That's why I keep away from PDF ebooks with DRM/Adobe.

Calibre cannot convert a PDF/DRM to PDF ebook satisfactorily.

And Amazon sells ebooks without "reading them" himself, i.e. technical books f.e. must be sold as PDF (or djvu, CHM etc) ebooks .. and not as "mobi" ebooks.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by hlk123

Hello

I'm willing and able f.e. to pay USD 30 for a 500pp PDF ebook.

In a DRM/Adobe ecosystem I pay money to the publishers and NOT to Adobe.

Recently I'd a problem with my Adobe-ID. Adobe will/can not help me. Fortunately the publisher changed the PDF ebook from DRM to watermark.
That's why I keep away from PDF ebooks with DRM/Adobe.

Calibre cannot convert a PDF/DRM to PDF ebook satisfactorily.

And Amazon sells ebooks without "reading them" himself, i.e. technical books f.e. must be sold as PDF (or djvu, CHM etc) ebooks .. and not as "mobi" ebooks.

There should be no need for Calibre to "convert" a pdf with drm at all, even if it could. Calibre will either import it with DRM, or, if you have installed Apprentice Alf's tools, it will remove the drm in the process of importing the file. So far as I'm aware, this process converts nothing. It simply decrypts the pdf and saves it in its unencrypted form. This should not affect formatting at all.

[conan50]

I don't mind DRM for borrowed digital library books, but that is the only place I don't mind it. I agree to borrow an ebook for 3 weeks through Overdrive, I should not be able to copy, share, upload it somewhere--fine, no problem.
But If I buy an ebook, it is beyond comprehension that buying does not mean "owning" or using it wherever I want on whatever device I want.
I thought Watermarking was the solution. But it is not. Buy a watermarked book, let your kid read it, their friend borrows it and uploads it to a bit-torrent site, the publisher/bookseller blames you and kills your account.
No, the only answer for books we purchase is DRM-Free books, just like mp3 music.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by conan50

I thought Watermarking was the solution. But it is not. Buy a watermarked book, let your kid read it, their friend borrows it and uploads it to a bit-torrent site, the publisher/bookseller blames you and kills your account.

I see nothing wrong with the scenario that you describe. If you purchase a copyrighted work, then don't you think that you have a responsibility to prevent it from being copied? If your child is giving copies of books to his friends, that is piracy, and it would seem to me to be your responsibility, as a parent, to prevent that.

[conan50]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I see nothing wrong with the scenario that you describe. If you purchase a copyrighted work, then don't you think that you have a responsibility to prevent it from being copied? If your child is giving copies of books to his friends, that is piracy, and it would seem to me to be your responsibility, as a parent, to prevent that.

I agree with you in theory, but in practice and reality the scenario I present, or something similar, would make a criminal out of one who committed no crime other than loaning a book
And there is this. Your phone, computer, or tablet is stolen, the thief has access to your watermarked ebooks and uploads them to a torrent site--you are now a victim of two crimes, one being robbed, another being accused of unlawfully uploading ebooks to a torrent site.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by conan50

I agree with you in theory, but in practice and reality the scenario I present, or something similar, would make a criminal out of one who committed no crime other than loaning a book
And there is this. Your phone, computer, or tablet is stolen, the thief has access to your watermarked ebooks and uploads them to a torrent site--you are now a victim of two crimes, one being robbed, another being accused of unlawfully uploading ebooks to a torrent site.

So what you're saying is that you believe it to be preferable not to be able to track down the source of a pirated book, because of the possibility of a false accusation being made? Have I understood you correctly?

[conan50]

Originally Posted by HarryT

So what you're saying is that you believe it to be preferable not to be able to track down the source of a pirated book, because of the possibility of a false accusation being made? Have I understood you correctly?

Are you saying you think publishers should lock down your ebook purchases to the point that if your ebooks are stolen you become the criminal?

[eschwartz]

I think that if you share your ebooks with one or two friends, then you have indeed pirated them. Also, you have bad taste in friends if they abuse your trust like that.
If your child shares your books with his friends, then someone you are financially responsible for has done illegal things with your financial assets. (What, only digital sharing and further subclassed to digital locations which talk about torrents counts as piracy? )

Either way, that is your fault, and you should accept responsibility to the same degree as though you personally had uploaded those books.



I consider it wildly unlikely that someone will steal your phone and upload your ebook library.
If your digital devices are stolen, you should be scrambling to protect your bank account and your identity.

The chances of a thief being interested in political statements about intellectual property and the "freedom of ideas" rather than your wallet are so unlikely as to be entirely ridiculous.



In other words, what I am saying is: the situation you are worried about will not happen. EVER!

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by conan50

Are you saying you think publishers should lock down your ebook purchases to the point that if your ebooks are stolen you become the criminal?

I'm saying that I think it's entirely reasonable that there should be a mechanism for tracing the source of a pirated book, and that it's your responsibility to take reasonable care of them, for example by not giving away copies of them in violation of the licence agreement. Having them stolen is of course not your fault, but can you give me one example of that happening?

[pwalker8]

The Music Industry tried the guilty until proven innocent anti-piracy program. They got so much bad press for suing grandmothers for the actions of their grandkids, they had to drop it. If someone seriously tries to use watermarks in a similar manner, I would imagine the same thing will happen. However, I rather doubt it will come up. The Publishing industry seems to have learned that lesson from the Music Industry.

[John F]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

I think that if you share your ebooks with one or two friends, then you have indeed pirated them. Also, you have bad taste in friends if they abuse your trust like that.
If your child shares your books with his friends, then someone you are financially responsible for has done illegal things with your financial assets. (What, only digital sharing and further subclassed to digital locations which talk about torrents counts as piracy? )

Either way, that is your fault, and you should accept responsibility to the same degree as though you personally had uploaded those books.



I consider it wildly unlikely that someone will steal your phone and upload your ebook library.
If your digital devices are stolen, you should be scrambling to protect your bank account and your identity.

The chances of a thief being interested in political statements about intellectual property and the "freedom of ideas" rather than your wallet are so unlikely as to be entirely ridiculous.



In other words, what I am saying is: the situation you are worried about will not happen. EVER!

Just curious, but didn't you offer to allow people on this site to download your ebooks from your library?

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by John F

Just curious, but didn't you offer to allow people on this site to download your ebooks from your library?

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!!!


If you really think you can find me offering pirated ebooks on MobileRead, please do not make snide insinuations. Report that post to a moderator. I will be permanently banned from MobileRead in 30 minutes or less.

Thing is, it isn't true and I can't be banned (but apparently I can still be blamed) for things I haven't done...