calibre and the new kindle layout engine

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by odamizu

I'm not sure what device GERGE is using (K4iOS maybe?), but K4Mac and K4iOS will show hyphens, especially if there's hyphen CSS inside, and sometimes when there isn't. However, it doesn't seem to work on eink Kindles (yet). More details in Post #28

Which makes it particularly relevant as an answer to your post #49, yes?

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by rashkae

Hmm, I have 1.11.2 as well now, On Linux (wine), for some reason, I thought that was newer... (since I just received the nag to update a few days ago.)

Nope: http://amzn.com/kindlepcdownload is the official download location for the latest version, and it currently redirects to: http://kindleforpc.amazon.com/40666/...-installer.exe -- which is build 40666.

And as an aside -- I bet I am not the only one who was having issues with winetricks downloading an old version of K4PC. So I got it updated upstream. Can't believe I was the first one.

[odamizu]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Which makes it particularly relevant as an answer to your post #49, yes?

Oh yes, absolutely. But in post #7 Gerge says doesn't have a Kindle and reads on an iPad, which is why I think Gerge is using K4iOS, not an eink Kindle. Perhaps Gerge will clarify?

P.S. Montana Harper and Nekian, who also answered my question, have PW3s listed among their devices, and my question was specific to PW3.

[cybmole]

Originally Posted by rashkae

Hmm, I have 1.11.2 as well now, On Linux (wine), for some reason, I thought that was newer... (since I just received the nag to update a few days ago.)

you were probably nagged because you had an older version that was about to expire. they mostly have built in " die on" dates.

so in that latest version, in your linux install, can you see any hyphens in any books yet ?

[rashkae]

Originally Posted by cybmole

you were probably nagged because you had an older version that was about to expire. they mostly have built in " die on" dates.

so in that latest version, in your linux install, can you see any hyphens in any books yet ?

No, no hyphens,, just the odd -epub-hyphens:auto in a kindle book css..

[GERGE]

I am on iOS.

By the way, I created a file with all hyphenation related css options enabled, still no hyphens.

[Doitsu]

Originally Posted by GERGE

By the way, I created a file with all hyphenation related css options enabled, still no hyphens.

Did you also create an AZK file with Kindle Previewer?
I did and hyphenation works fine with Kindle for iOS 4.9.1.

[odamizu]

Just so I'm clear, is Kindle for iOS limited to AZK only? or can it read AZW3 and/or MOBI as well? (I think it's AZK only, but I want to confirm with those who know better than I.)

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by odamizu

Just so I'm clear, is Kindle for iOS limited to AZK only? or can it read AZW3 and/or MOBI as well? (I think it's AZK only, but I want to confirm with those who know better than I.)

Mobi too, but not AZW3 (KF8).

[blaenk]

Haven't checked this thread in a while, so I'm catching up.

Originally Posted by odamizu

Just guessing here, but they might have been MOBI rather than AZW3. I've noticed MOBI has smaller line spacing than AZW3 on all three settings.

I can confirm this. I distinctly remember noticing this when I migrated my library from old MOBI to KF8/AZW3.

Originally Posted by odamizu

Another thought I had is that only AZK (and perhaps MOBI) requires rejiggering for the enhanced typesetting to work, and for AZW3s, the enhanced typesetting is controlled entirely on the device-side. That would explain why Amazon has been rejiggering their Kindlebooks without it seeming to make any difference in the AZW3s we've seen.

This is an excellent theory, and I'm inclined to agree based on what we know so far.

Originally Posted by odamizu

@blaenk and anyone else who has a PW3:

Does the Bookerly font work with ebooks (AZW3 or MOBI) that you created with Calibre? I.e., even if you don't get improved word-spacing and hyphenation, can you still use Bookerly?

Merci, Gracias, Spasibo!

That's affirmative! I'm glad I at least have that so far, since unlike you, I _do_ really want the new typesetting! I imagine it's similar to how other kindle fonts previously worked regardless of the book, i.e. Caecilia. As far as I know, the book's font is more of the edge case.

Originally Posted by Doitsu

Did you add the following style to the main stylesheet before converting your epubs to AZW3 books:

body {
-epub-hyphens:auto; 
-webkit-hyphens:auto; 
}

Personally I added this as a global "Extra CSS" option in Calibre > Preferences > Conversion - Common Options > Look and Feel. I'm not sure if this is the correct way to do it. I have not noticed any hyphenation myself.

Originally Posted by rashkae

[...] and the body css includes -epub-hyphens: auto

This might just be clutter from poor epub being fed to amazon, (both books I sampled were from the same publisher/series) but I'm starting to suspect that the new typesetting engine is just better support for epub css (obeying smaller line heights and hyphen rules, for example) and not any kind of special flag in the book.

This is plausible.

So, since we're not sure exactly what may be the way to leverage the new type setting (if it even is possible for side-loaded books), I'm starting to convert my books in a way that I hope is compatible with it when it's enabled. In particular I'm simply adding the CSS hyphenation directives shown above as well as ticking the checkbox "Keep ligatures".

With respect to that option, however, and ligatures in general, I have a concern. I imagine since some (at least as stated by the tooltip for that checkbox) readers don't support ligatures, I wouldn't be surprised if they catered to the lowest common denominator and simply did not include ligatures. I wonder if the new typesetting can compensate for this by substituting in ligatures where appropriate, or if this is part of what the 'typesetting processing' is doing, assuming the files you guys have downloaded are not the processed ones.

[cybmole]

Originally Posted by blaenk

Haven't checked this thread in a while, so I'm catching up.



...
So, since we're not sure exactly what may be the way to leverage the new type setting (if it even is possible for side-loaded books), I'm starting to convert my books in a way that I hope is compatible with it when it's enabled. In particular I'm simply adding the CSS hyphenation directives shown above as well as ticking the checkbox "Keep ligatures".

surely the side loaded case is an easy test to stage: we know what devices already have support for hyphenation e.g. my fire HDX 8.9 has it, so it should just be a case of you adding the planned extra css to one of your books, then sharing a review copy, say via a shared folder in dropbox, with trusted volunteers, who have such devices , and who know how to download and open it.

I was about to type send it via send-to-kindle but I recall there are hoops to jump through with that route: you have to make it into a mobi with the mobi-both option selected in order to keep the KF8 format, so that is adding more complexity to any test. Do it via dropbox and you'll know it never passed through amazon's processes.

I may get around to tweaking css in something that I have to hand & putting diffrent versions onto onto my fire via calibre companion, to see if I can control hyphens that way, but no promises of when/if I will get around to that.

i think there is an agreed upon device list on one of the several related threads.

[JSWolf]

Amazon needs get get off their collectives asses and fix the iOS app to handles KF8. That (IMHO) is the biggest hurdle for dumping Mobi.

[ciarpame]

Anyone tried these methods to obtain hyphenation in a sideloaded book in a Kindle Voyage with the 5.6.5 firmware? I see that this thread was not updated after the latest firmware release.

[Kamikuza]

Bumping this thread because I can't find anything as relevant.

Downloaded a book to my PaperWhite2 the other day and noticed the hyphenation. After a bit of browsing, I found KindlePreview 3 beta and sample.epub.

That epub opens in the KP3 and it's Information says it's "Typographically Enchanced" or whatever. Key point, it shows hyphenation in KP (Fire), I can open, view, and see no difference in Sigil and save it and it STILL says "Enhanced".

But it doesn't do that when I side-load. Unlike the other one.

So do I have to wait for the KP3 to allow eInk models or is this something to do with mobi/azk/asw3?

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by Kamikuza

Bumping this thread because I can't find anything as relevant.
...
So do I have to wait for the KP3 to allow eInk models or is this something to do with mobi/azk/asw3?

On MobileRead it is considered polite to start a new thread instead of bumping an old one that is only partially relevant.

If you are interested in the history of discovery, after this thread was active the discussion of enhanced typesetting moved on to various other threads. For example this one about the 5.6.5 firmware that introduced enhanced typesetting for e-ink kindles and this one about the KFX format that is required for rendering.

If you want to sideload a book with all of the enhanced typesetting features your only option at this time is using this calibre plugin to create your own KFX file.

If you only want hyphenation then this calibre plugin may be useful.