Summary of Modified Fonts - Page 16

mathil · 05-05-2015, 06:19 AM

Thank you GeoffR, GERGE -- I copied over only the Regular and Italic versions and the problem is gone. Unfortunately the font looks uneven, though, it's too thin in some places and too thick in others. I think there must be a problem in how the reader renders the font, as it looks fine (= even) when I use it in Koreader. However, I'm not sure this can be solved...

GeoffR · 05-05-2015, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mathil

Unfortunately the font looks uneven, though, it's too thin in some places and too thick in others. I think there must be a problem in how the reader renders the font, as it looks fine (= even) when I use it in Koreader. However, I'm not sure this can be solved...

There is something wonky with the hinting in Gentium Basic, I got much better results by using fontforge to remove the hinting information from the font. See this post for screenshots from my Glo.

chrisridd · 05-05-2015, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GERGE

Only some of them are good enough to compete and only a handful of them can really compete at the same level. Alegreya, PT Serif, Ubuntu Mono, Source Sans Pro... Stil, there is nothing like Freight family, Arno, Storm Baskerville, GT Sectra... I can count many.

They might look as good as the others on the surface, but there are many details that would be missing. Good kerning, good hinting, ligatures, optical sizes... For example Open Baskerville was long considered one of the best free typefaces out there, just compare it with Storm Baskerville.

What font features (like ligatures, hinting, kerning) do the kepub and epub engines use?

I'd also be interested to know if any particular font designs (or aspects of font designs) work better or worse on the kind of eInk screens used in the Kobo readers. I had the feeling from somewhere that eInk pixels were not a fixed size, but maybe I'm misremembering something.

Still, I wonder whether any font designs work better than others.

GeoffR · 05-05-2015, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisridd

What font features (like ligatures, hinting, kerning) do the kepub and epub engines use?

EPUB does hinting, kerning and ligatures (but the font needs to include full ligature instructions, not just the ligature glyphs.)

KEPUB does hinting and kerning (provided the font is in TTF format with 'old style' kerning tables), but not ligatures.

mathil · 05-05-2015, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffR

There is something wonky with the hinting in Gentium Basic, I got much better results by using fontforge to remove the hinting information from the font. See this post for screenshots from my Glo.

I just tried that and it displays perfectly now! Thank you so much

chrisridd · 05-05-2015, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffR

EPUB does hinting, kerning and ligatures (but the font needs to include full ligature instructions, not just the ligature glyphs.)

KEPUB does hinting and kerning (provided the font is in TTF format with 'old style' kerning tables), but not ligatures.

Thanks! I have been using OTF, but since I almost always read kepub it looks like TTF might be the better choice.

JSWolf · 05-05-2015, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffR

There is something wonky with the hinting in Gentium Basic, I got much better results by using fontforge to remove the hinting information from the font. See this post for screenshots from my Glo.

If you like, I can add in proper hinting to Gentium Basic and post it here for download for you to have a look at.

GERGE · 05-06-2015, 03:20 AM

eReaders have good aa and accurately renders the glyphs. I still don't believe hinting helps on eInk. And I definitely don't believe *autohinting* helps. Hinting should be done by hand.

Check here: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=259705 We can discuss it if you want to, I will try to produce some examples when I am free.

GERGE · 05-06-2015, 03:45 AM

By the way, FontForge's Change Glyph option sometimes helps greatly. Here is an example of its use with its default settings:

This is without any editing: http://drop.muratcansimsek.com/Scree...2010.29.12.png

This is after using it: http://drop.muratcansimsek.com/Scree...2010.30.24.png

Difference seems very minimal but it is actually very sane (in this example) and does sometimes much better work than device-side weight changing. What it does is making finest details of the glyphs more rough. It does not damage the typeface but eliminates finer details that cannot be accurately produced on eInk screens, details which are there for high quality printing.

Of course, it will make many typefaces worse, source glyphs must be very detailed for it to work, like the great Adobe Text (I don't think Robert Slimbach is capable of producing anything even slightly bad) in my example.

But it should never be used to change the weight, because then it also changes the height.

GERGE · 05-20-2015, 10:29 AM

It is not meant for eInk readers but Android phones and tablets. It works well out-of-the-box, but one needs to make some adjustments for the best performance. This is how it looks after that: http://drop.muratcansimsek.com/IMG_20150520_144417.png

That said, you can't actually give a link to it, Google hasn't released it to the wild yet, it is exlusive to Google Play Books. Wait for the Google Fonts release.

HarryT · 05-20-2015, 05:06 PM

Moderator Notice
Anyone else posting a download link to Google's "Literata" font will be banned from MobileRead without further warning. This is a copyrighted font and we take copyright infringement very seriously.

Take note of this warning.

PeterT · 05-20-2015, 05:13 PM

What would be interesting (and useful) would be the creation of some FontForge scripts to automate the massaging of scripts.

albaran · 05-26-2015, 12:01 PM

The regular font of a side loaded one display too thin on the Kobo Aura H2O. Type Genius is not available (using it for Caecilia). Running the FontForge Change weight filter to add a +22em weight seems good for this new font.

Can we stay with this fast modification without any further modifications? Or any work needed?

Re-reading the posts: if I understand correctly, first Change weight to have the correct weight, second Change Glyph with its default settings for eInk screens.

JSWolf · 05-26-2015, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albaran

The regular font of a side loaded one display too thin on the Kobo Aura H2O. Type Genius is not available (using it for Caecilia). Running the FontForge Change weight filter to add a +22em weight seems good for this new font.

Can we stay with this fast modification without any further modifications? Or any work needed?

Re-reading the posts: if I understand correctly, first Change weight to have the correct weight, second Change Glyph with its default settings for eInk screens.

What you need to do is to go to the patch thread for the firmware you are running and there will be a patch as part of the patches to allow Advanced Font control to work on side loaded fonts. I'm not sure if it works on OTF fonts. But it does work with TTF fonts.

GERGE · 05-27-2015, 08:03 AM

Yes, as JSWolf said for small changes advanced font control patch is usually better (although there are some rare fonts it doesn't perform well) if you only want to add weight. Change Glyph option is a bigger change, it removes fine details and adds weight.

Add weight with FontForge if the change is big, font control of Kobo performs badly with big changes. 22em is somewhat big but not so much that font controls won't work. So you should try both FontForge and font control. With FontForge, first only add weight and test the typeface. If some details are badly rendered or distorted, then use Change Glyph first, then add 16em or something similar.

Also, try removing the hints, it helps greatly.

05-06-2015, 03:20 AM	#233
GERGE Guru Posts: 733 Karma: 5797160 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Istanbul Device: Kobo Libra	eReaders have good aa and accurately renders the glyphs. I still don't believe hinting helps on eInk. And I definitely don't believe autohinting helps. Hinting should be done by hand. Check here: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=259705 We can discuss it if you want to, I will try to produce some examples when I am free. Last edited by GERGE; 05-06-2015 at 03:26 AM.

05-26-2015, 12:01 PM	#238
albaran Member Posts: 21 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jan 2012 Device: Kobo Aura H2O - Nook Touch Glow	The regular font of a side loaded one display too thin on the Kobo Aura H2O. Type Genius is not available (using it for Caecilia). Running the FontForge Change weight filter to add a +22em weight seems good for this new font. Can we stay with this fast modification without any further modifications? Or any work needed? Re-reading the posts: if I understand correctly, first Change weight to have the correct weight, second Change Glyph with its default settings for eInk screens. Last edited by albaran; 05-26-2015 at 01:45 PM.

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05-05-2015, 06:19 AM	#226
mathil Evangelist Posts: 445 Karma: 287725 Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Europe Device: Kobo Aura H2O/Glo HD/Libra 2, Kindle PW3/PW5/PW11, Boox Palma	Thank you GeoffR, GERGE -- I copied over only the Regular and Italic versions and the problem is gone. Unfortunately the font looks uneven, though, it's too thin in some places and too thick in others. I think there must be a problem in how the reader renders the font, as it looks fine (= even) when I use it in Koreader. However, I'm not sure this can be solved...

05-06-2015, 03:45 AM	#234
GERGE Guru Posts: 733 Karma: 5797160 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Istanbul Device: Kobo Libra	By the way, FontForge's Change Glyph option sometimes helps greatly. Here is an example of its use with its default settings: This is without any editing: http://drop.muratcansimsek.com/Scree...2010.29.12.png This is after using it: http://drop.muratcansimsek.com/Scree...2010.30.24.png Difference seems very minimal but it is actually very sane (in this example) and does sometimes much better work than device-side weight changing. What it does is making finest details of the glyphs more rough. It does not damage the typeface but eliminates finer details that cannot be accurately produced on eInk screens, details which are there for high quality printing. Of course, it will make many typefaces worse, source glyphs must be very detailed for it to work, like the great Adobe Text (I don't think Robert Slimbach is capable of producing anything even slightly bad) in my example. But it should never be used to change the weight, because then it also changes the height.

05-20-2015, 10:29 AM	#235
GERGE Guru Posts: 733 Karma: 5797160 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Istanbul Device: Kobo Libra	It is not meant for eInk readers but Android phones and tablets. It works well out-of-the-box, but one needs to make some adjustments for the best performance. This is how it looks after that: http://drop.muratcansimsek.com/IMG_20150520_144417.png That said, you can't actually give a link to it, Google hasn't released it to the wild yet, it is exlusive to Google Play Books. Wait for the Google Fonts release.

05-20-2015, 05:06 PM	#236
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,548 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Moderator Notice Anyone else posting a download link to Google's "Literata" font will be banned from MobileRead without further warning. This is a copyrighted font and we take copyright infringement very seriously. Take note of this warning.

05-20-2015, 05:13 PM	#237
PeterT Grand Sorcerer Posts: 13,535 Karma: 78910202 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Toronto Device: Libra H2O, Libra Colour	What would be interesting (and useful) would be the creation of some FontForge scripts to automate the massaging of scripts.

05-27-2015, 08:03 AM	#240
GERGE Guru Posts: 733 Karma: 5797160 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Istanbul Device: Kobo Libra	Yes, as JSWolf said for small changes advanced font control patch is usually better (although there are some rare fonts it doesn't perform well) if you only want to add weight. Change Glyph option is a bigger change, it removes fine details and adds weight. Add weight with FontForge if the change is big, font control of Kobo performs badly with big changes. 22em is somewhat big but not so much that font controls won't work. So you should try both FontForge and font control. With FontForge, first only add weight and test the typeface. If some details are badly rendered or distorted, then use Change Glyph first, then add 16em or something similar. Also, try removing the hints, it helps greatly.