Feedback wanted on 5% finished early alpha draft

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Kasper Hviid

Good question! Why not write in a language where I at least have mastery of the basic grammar?

For one thing, Denmark is very small. The country has been thought of as the capital of Sweden. I somehow finds it discouraging to write in a language nobody speaks.

But more importantly, I feel more comfy writing in English, despite my obvious handicaps. It gives some kind of distance. And all my favorite authors (stop it Hercules) are writing in (seriously, cut it out) English, and it bugs me when I have to make do with a Danish translation. Jørn Riel is great, but other than that, I don't really have any Danish faves. What I love about litterature is tied to the English language.

I'm not completely ruling Danish out, though.

Kasper,

One solution, which you may at least wish to consider, would be to employ a copy editor to correct your errors. This is something I would (and do ) recommend to all authors, but it's even more beneficial if you're not writing in your native language. I really admire you for even attempting to do this, let me add. I know the basics of several languages, but none (other than English) well enough to even consider writing a book in.

[gmw]

I would add that the criticism you have received here, while real in terms of end-user expectation, isn't (I suspect) what you were actually looking for. Hitch's suggestions of finding a (suitable) writer's forum/group is probably a good one (if you're that sort of person - I'm not). You need to find an audience that is willing and able to look past the surface defects and look at what it is you are actually writing. The surface defects can be corrected later (by paying for an editor, it's only money after all), but it can be difficult to find someone to help you with the stage you are at. MobileRead, as much as I like it, isn't really a good fit.

[Dr. Drib]

Originally Posted by Kasper Hviid

Good question! Why not write in a language where I at least have mastery of the basic grammar?

For one thing, Denmark is very small. The country has been thought of as the capital of Sweden. I somehow finds it discouraging to write in a language nobody speaks.

But more importantly, I feel more comfy writing in English, despite my obvious handicaps. It gives some kind of distance. And all my favorite authors (stop it Hercules) are writing in (seriously, cut it out) English, and it bugs me when I have to make do with a Danish translation. Jørn Riel is great, but other than that, I don't really have any Danish faves. What I love about litterature is tied to the English language.

I'm not completely ruling Danish out, though.

Your writing above is natural and flows, and it shows.

I think, based upon that initial sample in post #1, that you are simply trying too hard to be someone you're not.

Try writing your novel in the way that you wrote the above quote.

Be yourself!

[jandrew]

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

Your writing above is natural and flows, and it shows.

I think, based upon that initial sample in post #1, that you are simply trying too hard to be someone you're not.

Try writing your novel in the way that you wrote the above quote.

Be yourself!

I wholeheartedly agree. The post quoted by Dr Drib above demonstrates a very natural sounding fluency. Perhaps you just need to allow yourself to relax into it and tell your story rather than "Writing" it (with a capital W).

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

Your writing above is natural and flows, and it shows.

I think, based upon that initial sample in post #1, that you are simply trying too hard to be someone you're not.

Try writing your novel in the way that you wrote the above quote.

Be yourself!

I concur. Your post IS fluent-sounding, smooth, and enjoyable. Write like that. ;-)

@gmw wrote:

I would add that the criticism you have received here, while real in terms of end-user expectation, isn't (I suspect) what you were actually looking for. Hitch's suggestions of finding a (suitable) writer's forum/group is probably a good one (if you're that sort of person - I'm not).

I want to caveat what I'm about to say with this: I don't know GMW, nor his/her writings, etc., so what I'm about to say is NOT directed at/to him/her:

I'd say that unfortunately, this idea/attitude: "I'm not that sort of person" about critique groups is all too prevalent. Now, GMW may well be the sort of person for whom this really isn't a fit--lots of writers have been solitary creatures--but for many, this mindset or attitude is really masking a serious reluctance to deal with criticism. I've had people tell me, outright, on the KDP forums, that they don't use critique groups because they're "mean." They'll sit there, and get horrific reviews on Amazon, but somehow--I guess because it's a layer removed--that's okay. Myself, I'd rather burn with embarrassment at a bad critique in semi-private, than be torn to shreds on Amazon for writing dreck.

Here's my standard spiel, and you're welcome to ignore it (most do): Once upon a time, writers wrote. They scribbled, they submitted, they got rejection slips. They got drunk with their friends, about rejection slips. The more enduring would persist; the less enduring would QUIT. The more resilient would do things like paper their water closet with rejection slips (yes, I have a friend that did this, back in the 70's). They'd write more. (We're talking, years). They'd join writer's groups, go to CW (Creative Writing) courses, seminars, and classes. They'd start writing pay-by-the-word or other articles for magazines. They'd suffer with the editor's red pen, from which they would, in turn, LEARN.

They'd go to more writer's conferences. They'd take turns, reading their stuff in public. They'd learn from that. They'd try to corner agents and publishers, for elevator spiels. They'd learn from THAT.

And somewhere in time, if they persisted, eventually--eventually--one of those rejection letters would have something else. A note, that said, "well, we like this but right now, we're looking for X," or, better yet, "this is getting there, but you need to focus on Y," (for example, "your characters don't have enough depth yet.") And then they'd redouble their efforts.

For most authors, in the 60's-2000's, this was their life. Of that horde, few were published. But what mattered, in all of this, was that 10,000 hours of practice. AND, the constant rubbing. The constant inherent critique. The critique from writer's groups, writing buddies, magazine article editors. The constant abrading of writing that isn't good, from the pearls that are.

Nowadays, NONE of that happens, not really. Writers don't join critique groups, or take writing classes, etc., because THEY DON'T HAVE TO. There are no gatekeepers, no editors, no publishers, nobody giving them advice at writer's conferences, telling them that their dialog sucks. NONE of this happens, and humans--like any other animal--avoid discomfort, so they avoid all the places where that abrasion might occur. And honestly: their writing (by and large) suffers for this lack of abrasive polishing.

We all know that 99.99% of all writers, good, bad, great, indifferent, can't proofread their own books. I don't know why on earth they can't admit that they can't see the general FLAWS in their own writing, either, nor why they feel that submitting to a critique group would end their lives. I've used critique groups myself, and sure, there are moments (many) that aren't fun. But to me, it's a small and wee discomfiture, to replace what would, otherwise, be about 8-10 years of writing, submissions, rejections, travel, conferences, etc. That's the whole point of writer's or critique groups--to give you the criticism that your Mum won't. (FWIW: it also gives you accountability--that you have to have X words done by Y, etc. That's very helpful, for many, if you join organized groups that set goals for their members. Even a simple writing buddy can be good for this, but again: pick one that will not adore you.)

FWIW. As I said, feel free to ignore it--pretty much everyone does. You seem to be on the path toward seeking constructive criticism, so perhaps you'll get it done. Good for you.

P.S.: Maybe you oughtn't have named him Hercules. Maybe he needed something less manly, eh? ;-)

Hitch

[Nabeel]

It seems to me that Scandinavian countries are in a strange position linguistically. English seems to be creeping into daily communication more and more. I watched one Scandinavian film where the characters spoke to each other in Swedish, but sent emails and posted web-stuff in English.

It's a situation which must leave writers with quite a dilemma.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by Hitch

[...] I want to caveat what I'm about to say with this: I don't know GMW, nor his/her writings, etc., so what I'm about to say is NOT directed at/to him/her:

I'd say that unfortunately, this idea/attitude: "I'm not that sort of person" about critique groups is all too prevalent. Now, GMW may well be the sort of person for whom this really isn't a fit--lots of writers have been solitary creatures--but for many, this mindset or attitude is really masking a serious reluctance to deal with criticism. I've had people tell me, outright, on the KDP forums, that they don't use critique groups because they're "mean." They'll sit there, and get horrific reviews on Amazon, but somehow--I guess because it's a layer removed--that's okay. Myself, I'd rather burn with embarrassment at a bad critique in semi-private, than be torn to shreds on Amazon for writing dreck. [...]

I have absolutely no disagreement with anything you've written. (I'm a "him", btw, not that it matters.)

My situation, my "not that sort of person", isn't related to the criticism aspect. Like you say, I'd rather be criticised/embarrassed in a small group than have my name as an author ruined forever on Amazon.

In my case it's just that I've never been a very good team player (which is probably why I've been self-employed for most of my working life, and I can tell you I'm not even a very good boss ). BUT, and it is a big BUT, missing out on the benefits of work groups etc., means finding other ways to achieve the same ends. This applies just as much to the work that pays my wages as it does to my writing. So I've never seen it as being able to do without them, it's always been a matter of finding alternatives that I can work with.