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#76 | |
Grand Sorcerer
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https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...&postcount=411 Such orders would normally go to distribution firms (Ingram, Baker & Taylor). So it wouldn't be surprising if Hachette had a slight difficulty fulfilling big orders sent to the wrong place, that place presumably being Hachette's digs on 6th Avenue (or did Amazon send to Paris?). But "not surprising" is miles from proven. And there's no evidence that Hachette did have a problem taking on the wholesaler role, if that's what Amazon asked of them. AFAIK, Amazon spokespersons didn't claim its ship dates were based on examination of how long it took for an ordered book to arrive at the Amazon warehouse. I think your post is an example of what we used to call being more Catholic than the Pope, or, in this case, the Bezos family. |
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#77 |
Grand Sorcerer
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Ah yes....Le Guin.
Old and cranky because she doesn't sell like she used to. Nevermind that she doesn't write like she used to... Each generation of SF/F has its theme, and a couple of writers that feelingly expressed that theme. So was it with Le Guin. The problem is that the world changes and the theme get stale. As a writer you have to look beyond the generational theme that made you successful. It doesn't matter whether you are talking about the Space Opera (E.E.Smith), The Campbell explosion of the 1940s (Asimov and Heinlein), the juveniles of the 1950s (Heinlein Mark II, Nourse, and others), the "new wave" of the 1960s (Moorcock, Eliison, et. al.), The feminism and modern liberalism of the (mid) 60s throught 70s, or the cyberpunk wave of the 1980s.... Read them all. The writers that succeeded over long time are the ones who changed their themes with the times. As far as Le Guin and awards, her writing makes a group of literati hearts go pitta pat. Those literati give out lots of awards to their favorites <shrug>. There have been far better writers that her in the SSF/F world. Book for book, story for story, I'd stack Theodore Sturgeon's work superior to hers. But then again, he beat Graham Greene head to head in a British Short Story contest. (Bianca's Hands). I'd stack Thunder and Roses, A Saucer Full of Loneliness, and The Man Who Lost The Sea, against and and all comers, from any genre (or none), in any language. And for those who think the The Left Hand of Darkness, was such a groundbreaking work, I would suggest they read Venus Plus X <published 10 years before> The Left Hand of Darkness. But I'm a mean Ol' reactionary. Break out your pitchforks.... |
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#78 | |
Grand Sorcerer
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Each different, based on different criteria; none is gospel. My point about LeGuin isn't that she isn't good but rather that she is far from the top, no matter the criteria. She has her fans but so does pretty much any author who writes a good story or two. Doesn't put her on a pedestal and above criticism when she says something thoroughly... misguided, to be kind (or cluelessly stupid, to be less than polite). Frankly, she is too much a creature of her milieu--the 60's--and she is unlikely to touch future generations as deeply as her own. Too much of her stories are based on advocacy of causes that won't need advocacy and will seem more like curiosities to most readers. She had her heydey and she'll have at least a footnote in the history books. But enduring greatness? Nope. Don't see it. I do agree that the lists (and LeGuin's fans) seem to undervalued a lot of female SF&F authors with better chances at enduring fame. Cherryh, Wilhelm, Triptree, Joan Vinge and Butler all come to mind fairly easily. |
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#79 | |
Wizard
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But none of that diminishes her very successful career, or reduces the number of loyal fans. And this story is just nothing new from her - she's been saying the same things for years. If it puts you off on her writing, well, odds are you've never been a fan anyway, because her political views are very present in her writing. So nothing lost there, and it's hard to imagine she'll lose any sleep over it. Neither should any of us. |
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#80 | |
Grand Sorcerer
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It takes a bit of effort to work your way through a century of the genre's evolution to be able to put authors and stories in a broader context. I've been at it for pretty much my entire life. (Give or take five years.) Not ready to judge the 21st century writers but the 20th century crew I feel confident I understand where they fit. Sturgeon I agree has legs and likely will be treated kindly by history, not just for his place in history but because of the timelessness of his stories. Poul Anderson and Gordon Dickson are two others I think are woefully underated. But then, it took a couple centuries for Jane Austen to become Jane Austen. By contrast, many of her lionized contemporaries are barely remembered. |
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#81 | |
Maria Schneider
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As with most lists, I guess I'd like to see some of the "pure entertainment" valued and listed more often (whether from male or female writers). So I suppose I shouldn't be surprised by lists or who wins the awards. |
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#82 |
Kate
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Oh, wow, you found a LIST! that deflates her value! You must be right then!
Sorry for the sarcasm, but you can find just about anything to justify any view on the internet. You've read her, you don't like her, fine. My earlier post was aimed at the folks who were disparaging her without having read her. I don't care who the author is, doing that is pure s**t. Why people want to jump into discussions of books they haven't read and movies they haven't seen puzzles me mightily. You don't HAVE to express an opinion about everything - often it's best not to. |
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#83 | ||
Ex-Helpdesk Junkie
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The list agrees with my personal experiences. FWIW. And it isn't difficult to deflate anyone's value from the pinnacle tompe set, which is apparently a categorical "best ever, and no one can or will match her, no matter what anyone else may think". Quote:
Who here has said "I didn't read her books, and I am making fun of them anyway"? (Not that I even think they are bad anyway -- just that they aren't to my taste, and apparently a lot of other peoples' as well, in my circles. As I said, tastes change -- and all that means is, clearly she isn't indispensable.) Last edited by eschwartz; 11-25-2014 at 12:53 AM. |
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#84 | |
No Comment
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It doesn't matter whether you are talking about the Space Opera (E.E.Smith), The Campbell explosion of the 1940s (Asimov and Heinlein), the juveniles of the 1950s (Heinlein Mark II, Nourse, and others), the "new wave" of the 1960s (Heinlein Mark III, Moorcock, Eliison, et. al.), The feminism and modern liberalism of the (mid) 60s throught 70s, or the cyberpunk wave of the 1980s.....[/ |
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#85 | |
Grand Sorcerer
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#86 | |
Grand Sorcerer
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(Although Lessing had a strong base in those circles.) But among the unwashed masses Martin, King, Rowling, and Gaiman are much better known. They are today's bestsellers. Reknown is a function of sales, after all. Which is what she is decrying, really, when you get down to it. Last edited by fjtorres; 11-25-2014 at 06:07 AM. |
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#87 |
Grand Sorcerer
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And what I said was that among the authors that also write outside of the genre she is very well known. Rowling writes in two genres so not outside genre. King seems to me to be a genre in himself. Similar for Gaiman and I do not remember him writing something outside of the fantastic. I have only read fantasy and sf from Martin.
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#88 | |
Grand Sorcerer
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The kindest analysis I've seen of her position is from Sarah Hoyt:
http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2014/11...rth-to-snakes/ Quote:
It can get dangerous for those that refuse to accept those changes. (In this case, the danger is to her reputation.) Last edited by fjtorres; 11-25-2014 at 06:20 AM. |
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#89 | |
Grand Sorcerer
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Plus I left out Heinlein Mark III deliberately. I didn't consider him part of the "New Wave" group of writers. (That's not a sneer, just a description. Compare, say Moorcock's A Cure For Cancer with anything Heinlein wrote pre-1979. Not the same grouping...) Last edited by Greg Anos; 11-25-2014 at 06:52 AM. |
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#90 | |
Grand Sorcerer
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He took advantage of the looser editorial climate but he went in a very different direction than the New Wave authors. Different concerns and interests from them. For him the new rules were more a license to tackle taboo subjects such as religion and race with a contrarian approach more than a rebellion against the status quo. He had no interest in going into Ellison/Moorcock territory, he was just happy to lose the old handcuffs. Of course, the lack of fetters led eventually to NUMBER OF THE BEAST but you gotta take the bad with the good. (GLORY ROAD, for one.) |
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