Sideloading: Own content or "from somewhere else"

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

...You seem to be assuming all PD ebooks that cost money are necessarily of better quality than the free ones...

Quality obviously varies a lot.
And I'm sure, HarryT will spend more time and expertise than most resellers of PD stuff.

But, when buying my stuff, I still hope for some consistency.
This hope gets shattered often enough, even within official series bought from Amazon, Kobo and the likes, often there's no structure at all.
But still I hope: If somebody gets paid for their effort, hopefully they deliver acceptable quality. Additionally, on Amazon I always can get my money back, no questions asked.
Stuff for free, on the other hand can be "hit and miss". I still can delete them, without any harm. But like I wrote: I hope for a higher hitrate with purchased stuff, so bad quality stuff doesn't cluster my library before I even will recognize it.
Typically, I buy a handful of books twice per week or so. Often enough I won't read them or even touch them for months. If I'd download from the wrong source, I might not see it for weeks and could have collected dozens of "bad ones" already...

And:
PD stuff probably is less than 10% of my library.
I buy lots of recent business related books.
Whenever some buzzwords such as "blue ocean" or "black swan" pop up, I buy the respective literature and speed-read them. Such titles you can't find in PD or for free anyway.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by Purple Lady

I didn't catch the fact that you could change your default until I read this post. All the got my attention.

So thanks! I do hit the selection dropdown every time I place an order, so this will really help.

Maybe it's a cultural thing.
But in Germany and most other countries I know is the non-verbal equivalent of calling someone an idiot.
In my book, that's an absolute no-go and I certainly wouldn't thank someone for being out of line.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

Maybe it's a cultural thing.
But in Germany and most other countries I know is the non-verbal equivalent of calling someone an idiot.
In my book, that's an absolute no-go and I certainly wouldn't thank someone for being out of line.

Around here, it usually means smacking oneself in the head for missing something obvious. It's most often directed at the person posting, not directed at others.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Yep. Stones... glass houses...

Then again, I consider the foundational premise of this thread to be intolerably rude toward a lot of people.

Neither did I state, all or even most sidelaoders would be pirates.
Nor did I use scatology ( is the non-verbal equivalent of calling someone an idiot).

I left lots of people out of the equation, that's true.
Namely the ones downloading (and then sideloading) legit stuff for free.
But that's the very nature of a poll: It's not for the entire public, but a small target group.
In this case:
Buying and sideloading vs. sideloading pirated stuff.
Free downloads don't make sense in this context, since it's rarely pirated.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

Around here, it usually means smacking oneself in the head for missing something obvious. It's most often directed at the person posting, not directed at others.

Can be the same in Germany.
But in the context of eschwartz it's clearly directed towards others.
Mostly me, but in the meantime some others as well.

[DiapDealer]

I understand what you're asking about perfectly well. I just don't agree with a premise that states "because pirates sideload ... then the majority of sideloaded content out there MUST be pirated."

To me, that's an unsubstantiated leap (ten known pirating test-subjects aside). It assumes one of two scenarios--either of which would be hard to verify: 1) that the majority of readers who are sideloading are pirates. Or 2) that a small number of hoarding pirates are sideloading more illegal content than a larger number of legal sideloaders combined. I don't believe either scenario is very likely, myself.

I guessing the smallish number of ebook futzers and tweakers and legal free/PD sideloaders and personal document emailers (such as ourselves here at MobileRead), and the tiny number of "I'm-dowloading-thousands-of-illicit-ebooks-and-putting-them-all-on-my-device/sdcard" pirates probably cancel each other out at the very worst.

It just seems to me that your mind was already made up before you created your poll. You seem to believe your ten-person sampling to be representive of sideloading readers the world over, and will accept no scenario that challenges it. If you seek to narrowly define the left-hand side of the equation as those buy (for money) from a retailer and then sideload, then what's the point really? Who cares if pirates sideload more than the tiny number of sideloaders you've decided should be counted in your poll? Just because you're only interested in the "piracy aspect" doesn't mean you should get to cherry-pick who goes in the "non-pirate" category you're comparing to.

I will concede that there's probably more sideloaded illicit material on the sdcards of pirates than there are books that were purchased (for money) from a retailer and then sideloaded. I just fail to see the relevance of such a comparison. Pirates pirate more than buyers sideload?... OK.

[AnneT]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

I only was -and am- interested in the piracy aspect.
That was my entire intention behind this poll.

There doesn't seem to be a distinct consensus about the meaning of "sideloading":
Does sideloading mean, circumventing the system, for example installing Google Play on a Kindle tablet?
Or does "sideloading" simply mean, transferring data from PC to mobile device via USB?
This ambiguity (which isn't mine, you simply find different definitions of "sideloading" online) alone already generates some confusion.

But, whatever the correct or most widely spread definition of sideloading ever might be, my simple assumption was:
Most pirates sideload. Depending on the definition described above, one even might say, by the very definition every single pirate has to sideload.
Of course, this doesn't mean that each sideloader is a pirate.
But how big is the ratio between the 2 groups?
(Obviously smaller in MR than in the none-enthusiast general public, but you have to start somewhere).

So, my idea behind the poll was, what kind of content mostly is sideloaded.

Of course I simply could have asked: How many of you have illegal content?
But for one, this wouldn't be allowed by the MR regulations. There are no legal consequences to fear, but still lots of users might have worried about giving a potentially incriminating answer.
And second of all, it wouldn't have linked to the sideloading aspect, that interests me.

So again, I could have asked: How many of you are sideloading illegal content?
But again: MR regulations and admitting to shady actions.

So I intentionally phrased it ambiguously.
Thus eliminating any risk or fear of legal consequences.
And giving the MR moderators enough room, to let it pass.

I thought, by first explicitly asking about buying stuff and then by putting "from somewhere else" as the alternative option in quotation marks, my intentions would be clear enough for a discussion, but at the same time ambiguous enough for the reasons described above.

Again:
"From somewhere else" can (and most of the time will) be totally legit.
But I wasn't interested in the whole picture of eBooks.
I was interested in the small fragment around sideloading.

By being ambiguous, the open poll shouldn't be a problem.
Of course, some users might lie to keep face and might have told the truth when being able to hide. But my guess would be, the impact of an open poll is another one: Less participants, because some will hesitate to give their real standpoint. But will some really go so far to still vote, but lie to appear differently?

No.
Sideloading just means 'not downloading from the cloud' (nor uploading to the cloud), but loading the file from a computer or a card (or whatever) onto your device. So nothing illegal about that.

[delph]

I thought that sideloading simply meant loading the book manually onto the reading device via USB or from your own Calibre server.

I inadvertently skipped picking an option in a couple of the question couplets, though I think overall I answered in the spirit of your intended data points. I'm very much into sideloading (though I managed to skip picking that), for reasons of formatting and investment. If I'm going to pay for an ebook or "buy" a freebie, I want to read it the way I want to read it on my preferred device. I feel a little badly that I genuinely don't care about the time the publisher may have put into making the fonts "just so". It's just more important to me that I can read it comfortably, so I use the font and sizing that I prefer. I also don't want to chance a server going offline or a merchant pulling a title or going out of business.

This is causing me some consternation with regards to digital comics right now. With the exception of special graphic novels, I would prefer to read my comics digitally. There is a means to backup comics purchased from Comixology, and they have DRM-free offerings as well. Unfortunately, Dark Horse doesn't sell through Comixology, and there are a lot of Dark Horse titles that I really want to read. I'm not aquiring them "somewhere else", just simmering about it and not purchasing. Maybe I should tell them that...

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I understand what you're asking about perfectly well. I just don't agree with a premise that states "because pirates sideload ... then the majority of sideloaded content out there MUST be pirated."

To me, that's an unsubstantiated leap (ten known pirating test-subjects aside). It assumes one of two scenarios--either of which would be hard to verify: 1) that the majority of readers who are sideloading are pirates. Or 2) that a small number of hoarding pirates are sideloading more illegal content than a larger number of legal sideloaders combined. I don't believe either scenario is very likely, myself.

I guessing the smallish number of ebook futzers and tweakers and legal free/PD sideloaders and personal document emailers (such as ourselves here at MobileRead), and the tiny number of "I'm-dowloading-thousands-of-illicit-ebooks-and-putting-them-all-on-my-device/sdcard" pirates probably cancel each other out at the very worst.

Personally, I'm pretty sure the number of pirates is way bigger than you might assume.
I don't know about the US.
But in Europe, there are intense discussions about ISPs capping the download capacities.
Depending on the ISP and the country in question, they typically drastically reduce your download speed after reaching a certain daily limit.
But here it comes: The limits in question are in the tens of GB. Per day! The limit I have in my business contract is 100GB per day, for example.
I don't need that, not even close. But I automatically got it, linked to my speed of 100Mb.
Question to me would be, why so many people exceed their limits. Obviously enough, so the ISPs have to react.
Yes, my neighbor as a highly sought after web developer will need this kind of capacity from time to time. But the general public?
Such capacities largely only make sense for pirates.
Downloading BlueRays of 30GB and the likes.

Of course, eBooks won't add to that volume, even 500 books per day equate to less than a single CD.
But I dare say: If movies and TV shows are pirated to such an enormous extent: Why should it be any different for books?

But again:
The MR community, largely consisting of book lovers, obviously will differ (to the better) from the general public.
And only a minority of sideloaders will be pirates.
Still I'd find it interesting to get an idea about the ratio.
A poll obviously won't give the full answer. But maybe an idea. And maybe some vivid discussions - without scatology, please.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by AnneT

No.
Sideloading just means 'not downloading from the cloud' (nor uploading to the cloud), but loading the file from a computer or a card (or whatever) onto your device. So nothing illegal about that.

Yesterday I've posted 2 definitions I've found online.
Both contradicting each other.
One as you state, the other referring to the circumvention.
If you google for it, within minutes you'll find tons of definitions like that.

[BearMountainBooks]

Graphic artists probably need that kind of downloading capacity (or anyone transferring large amounts of photos). Wedding photographers, cover artists and so on. A lot of them run their own businesses, but from home--not a company account. I'm sure there are other careers that require large back/forth of files.

That's not to say I have any idea how much material is being pirated. I'm sure it's quite a lot and includes all kinds of digital items.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

...It just seems to me that your mind was already made up before you created your poll. You seem to believe your ten-person sampling to be representive of sideloading readers the world over, and will accept no scenario that challenges it. If you seek to narrowly define the left-hand side of the equation as those buy (for money) from a retailer and then sideload, then what's the point really? Who cares if pirates sideload more than the tiny number of sideloaders you've decided should be counted in your poll? Just because you're only interested in the "piracy aspect" doesn't mean you should get to cherry-pick who goes in the "non-pirate" category you're comparing to.

I get your point.
But, like I wrote: The aspect that -exclusively- did interest me, was "buying content" vs. "using pirated content". And this in conjecture to sideloading, as pirates obviously mostly (entirely, depending on the definition) use sideloading.

The ones downloading freebies or PD don't make sense in that equation.
This kind of poll than would be entirely about "what are the sources of your content". Interesting, but different topic.

I don't think, my test group of 10 friends represents the majority. My personal guess would be, about 1/3 of consumers, but how to validate that?

[Mort1997]

I sideload to all my devices including my kindles as I dislike using the Wi Fi system. I have a lot of freebies in my Amazon library (strangely quite a few of Endeavour Press books) and I prefer to organise my books thr Calibre - a habit I picked up when I had Sony ereaders exclusively and was re-inforced (as earlier mentioned with loss of companies such BoB, Diesel etc).

I found the apparent main intention of the poll a bit distasteful but I have enjoyed reading peoples comments about their own approaches to book storage and organisation.

And thanks Harry for clarifying the situation with the Amazon settings

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

...Just because you're only interested in the "piracy aspect" doesn't mean you should get to cherry-pick who goes in the "non-pirate" category you're comparing to..

How else to make a poll about the piracy aspect, than eliminating the other aspects from the equation?

Yes, if we would decide to use "number of books" as the base of comparison, freebies would have to count. They might be even a bigger portion than the bought ones.

But, my rationale:
- Pirates do it, to either safe money themselves (not buying stuff) or even making a profit (selling pirated stuff).
- Pirates sideload.
- So, to what compare the sideloads of pirates? To me, for comparison the group pirates avoid, namely the bought stuff, makes most sense. Pirates, for example might sideload freebies as well. Maybe they simply don't care, but batch-download and sideload whatever they have. Then I would have to equate the freebies of the pirates to the freebies of the none-pirates.
But "bought" vs. "pirated" is a (the only one) airtight distinction.

[Terisa de morgan]

I've arrived late to the discussion but I have a question? Do you equal sideloading to transfer by USB?