Sideloading: Own content or "from somewhere else"

[Ripplinger]

I'm finding it amusing that the discussion is more about the wording of the poll than of the content of the poll itself .

Honestly, I took the "somewhere else" to mean pirated books even though it wasn't explicitly stated as pirated books, and all other choices to be from legit sources, whether you paid full price, purchased at a discount, got lucky and hit a free book day by hitting a purchase or download button, or download public domain titles from any legit source. And I answered according to that viewpoint.

If I created the poll, I wouldn't be 100% certain it would stand as worded if using "pirated books" without a moderator stepping in (although I think they wouldn't since we're not discussing how to do it at all, it still could be considered getting close to crossing that line). So I can understand why mgmueller kept the wording a bit vague.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

I don't need an excuse for something I don't bother about.
I obviously wouldn't tip a merchant. But I wouldn't negotiate prices either.
If I buy book X for € 10 easy enough, why would I mind to re-purchase book Y for the very same amount?
I'll have the very same fun for the very same amount of time.
I might have spent those € 10 a few years ago already, but that's a matter of the past...

So then... why would you spend money on PD books?

With the justification:

But even though they are out of copyright, you still can buy them as special editions. And I do so. I avoid free stuff. In German we have a saying: "What costs nothing is worth nothing" and I find some truth to that.

and:

For one, I enjoy buying. There's something satisfying to purchasing.

That is why I wondered if you look for excuses to give people money.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

BTW: It's considered impolite and bad style, to write in capital letters and smash your head.
Idiots such as me might not deserve better. But intellectually superior people like you then even more should mind their manners.

I hope your healthy self-confidence pays in your job.

I only do that after I feel I have been talking to a brick wall.

Perhaps this is less rude?:

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

So then... why would you spend money on PD books?...

Because I don't care.
Not whether to spend money. Like everyone else, I'm fine with saving some bucks.
But I don't care about the source, PD or not.
If I'm interested in the title and my usual merchant has it, I buy it.
To me, not bothering about such stuff belongs to "quality of life". I'd rather increase my income, than having to start to care about whether to buy what I want to have.
Within reason of course.
When Stephen King's "The Stand" was (if I remember correctly) € 45, I hesitated for a few days, whether to buy it. I eventually did, of course.
Again: To me it's all about the value I get.
PD or not: If I get 10 hours out of it, what's € 10? Cheapest hobby ever.
€ 1 per hour? Cinema is 10 times the amount, going to a (good) restaurant 50 times the amount.
I might have spent those € 10 without need. But for one, I'll never know as I don't do the research. And last but not least: If I would be into savings, I would focus on total figures. Then I wouldn't got to the restaurant, but buy some bread from the bakery next door.
Some might say: "Save wherever you can".
My philosophy always has been, to (within my financial limits) follow my desires.
And fortunately enough, I can regulate my income. If I want to spend above my budget, I don't forsake my respective wishes but increase my income accordingly (within natural limits, obviously).

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

I only do that after I feel I have been talking to a brick wall. ...

Then don't.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Perhaps this is less rude?:

Still rude.
But probably common in your circles.
I guess, you've never managed people? Else you wouldn't act that way, private forum or not.
On the other hand I have to admit, you're annoying me, so I probably would need some training again myself.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

Because I don't care.
Not whether to spend money. Like everyone else, I'm fine with saving some bucks.
But I don't care about the source, PD or not.
If I'm interested in the title and my usual merchant has it, I buy it.
To me, not bothering about such stuff belongs to "quality of life". I'd rather increase my income, than having to start to care about whether to buy what I want to have.
Within reason of course.
When Stephen King's "The Stand" was (if I remember correctly) € 45, I hesitated for a few days, whether to buy it. I eventually did, of course.
Again: To me it's all about the value I get.
PD or not: If I get 10 hours out of it, what's € 10? Cheapest hobby ever.
€ 1 per hour? Cinema is 10 times the amount, going to a (good) restaurant 50 times the amount.
I might have spent those € 10 without need. But for one, I'll never know as I don't do the research. And last but not least: If I would be into savings, I would focus on total figures. Then I wouldn't got to the restaurant, but buy some bread from the bakery next door.
Some might say: "Save wherever you can".
My philosophy always has been, to (within my financial limits) follow my desires.
And fortunately enough, I can regulate my income. If I want to spend above my budget, I don't forsake my respective wishes but increase my income accordingly (within natural limits, obviously).

Nevertheless, I rather suspect that most people will go to a small amount of effort to find a 100% discount (of the legal species) on something.

And MR has a very nice library right here, with good-quality books.

And PD ebooks for sale on Amazon/Kobo are not necessarily any better than the raw PG stuff. Certainly MR uploads will tend toward better quality.

You seem to be assuming all PD ebooks that cost money are necessarily of better quality than the free ones.

There is no correlation.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

Still rude.
But probably common in your circles.
I guess, you've never managed people? Else you wouldn't act that way, private forum or not.
On the other hand I have to admit, you're annoying me, so I probably would need some training again myself.

Yep. Stones... glass houses...

Then again, I consider the foundational premise of this thread to be intolerably rude toward a lot of people.

[Cosimo]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

So then... why would you spend money on PD books?...

I buy books that are in the public domain all the time.

While the content may be available at no cost, someone pays to keep Project Gutenberg and the MobileRead library available. Why should I spend someone else's resources when I have enough of my own?

I also want something of good quality. The few public domain books I have sampled were very poor (these were from a retailer, not Project Gutenberg or MobileRead). Usually, there are multiple copies to choose from and I feel it to be a waste of my time to get a sample of all of them in search of something suitable when I have found a publisher I like and trust to provide me with what I want.

I've also bought multiple copies of the same book. One book I was waiting impatiently for and didn't bother to check the format when it became available. So, of course I end up with a PDF file. But why tolerate something I don't have to? The publisher's site had it in epub, so in less than a minute I had what I wanted.

Another time, a new author had their book for sale, but only directly from the publisher's site. I bought it, loved it thoroughly. Quite some time passed and it was available on the Kobo site, so for the ease and convenience of syncing, I bought it again.

If someone else finds my behavior to be odd, mad, or the very height of insanity, I don't particularly care.

[cromag]

I suspected that the option "I download my content for free from somewhere else" meant piracy, but that doesn't work (for me, at least) either. I have never downloaded a pirated book. If it's too expensive IMHO for an ebook, and many are, my public library is 5 minutes down the road.

On the other hand, whenever possible I do download, and then sideload, free ebooks from legal providers, like authors promoting a series (Dana Stabenow, etc.) or side projects (Jane Kelly's Fear of Seaside Heights, etc.) or various publishers sites.

All legal, and much appreciated.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Cosimo

I buy books that are in the public domain all the time.

While the content may be available at no cost, someone pays to keep Project Gutenberg and the MobileRead library available. Why should I spend someone else's resources when I have enough of my own?

And they are there for that precise reason, so why begrudge them the opportunity to do a public service as they desire?

They aren't being charged more (as in, a few more dollars for webhosting, which is not all that expensive) just because you download from them.

What, random people selling things on Amazon are somehow more worthy of your dollars? You cannot just donate a few dollars to PG? (I don't know if MR has a donations thing going...)

Sorry, I don't buy that explanation.

I also want something of good quality. The few public domain books I have sampled were very poor (these were from a retailer, not Project Gutenberg or MobileRead). Usually, there are multiple copies to choose from and I feel it to be a waste of my time to get a sample of all of them in search of something suitable when I have found a publisher I like and trust to provide me with what I want.

You are paying for the convenience, nothing wrong with that.

Many people feel MobileRead provides great convenience, and freely.

I've also bought multiple copies of the same book. One book I was waiting impatiently for and didn't bother to check the format when it became available. So, of course I end up with a PDF file. But why tolerate something I don't have to? The publisher's site had it in epub, so in less than a minute I had what I wanted.

What's the therefore?

Another time, a new author had their book for sale, but only directly from the publisher's site. I bought it, loved it thoroughly. Quite some time passed and it was available on the Kobo site, so for the ease and convenience of syncing, I bought it again.

If someone else finds my behavior to be odd, mad, or the very height of insanity, I don't particularly care.

You may feel that service to be worth paying for. I cannot comment on that.

I do know that many people have a difference of opinion (without dismissing your opinions) and (this is the critical part that is causing some confusion in this thread) their opinions are deserving too.

[Arithonne]

You forgot "I sideload because it's much easier to manage collections via Calibre than on the reader itself" and "I sideload because my first reader didn't have wifi or 3G and it became habit" and probably a bunch of other reasons that have nothing to do with pirating.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

And I had "Illegal" or something like that in one of the poll questions but it had been changed by a moderator to "free".

Nope - I added "for free" (& tweaked a couple of typos) but I certainly didn't remove an "Illegal".

[Xanthe]

Why was this made a public poll with names shown, instead of merely a general one with vote totals?

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Xanthe

Why was this made a public poll with names shown, instead of merely a general one with vote totals?

That's a choice by the person creating the poll.