Will you subscribe to Kindle Unlimited?

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by dengar

Ok, here is the problem I currently see with the Kindle Lending program and now with Unlimited.

I just finished Steel World by B.V. Larson, the first of his Undying Mercenaries series (great scifi book btw). Looking through the series, Book 1 and 2 are Unlimited but Book 3 is not. I get hooked on a series thats Unlimited then bam! I have to pay to continue the series. This ticks me off to no end. Its happening more and more.

Imagine watching Breaking Bad on Netflix and they tell you that you have to pay extra for the last season. You would be pissed too.

You do understand that that is exactly why authors are only signing up part of their catalog to KU, right?
And why BAEN offers their free library?
Why indie publishers do sales and freebies?

To get you to actually give them some cash for their other titles.
There is a reason why KU only offers up 20% of the Kindle catalog: it's a marketting tool.

And Netflix?
They do the exact same thing, in case you hadn't noticed: cancelled shows? Yes, full series.
Past seasons of current shows, sure. Current or recently ended seasons? No.
ARROW season one? Yes. ARROW season two? Buy the DVDs.

Ditto for dozens of current series.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

You do understand that that is exactly why authors are only signing up part of their catalog to KU, right?
And why BAEN offers their free library?
Why indie publishers do sales and freebies?

That is not entirely the whole truth. A lot of series in KU are complete - some with the last current book still brand new. Depends on the author, I guess. Some have one series complete and none of another series.I even seen a lot of series that have the first book free to purchase, and still have the others in KU as well.

Just saying that not everything in KU is a "scam" to make you pay more.

[copyrite]

I lurk in a forum where indy authors have discussed KU strategies... and putting only the first book or first couple books in a series is one of the ideas that has been mentioned, so clearly there are a number of authors who do that deliberately.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

That is not entirely the whole truth. A lot of series in KU are complete - some with the last current book still brand new. Depends on the author, I guess. Some have one series complete and none of another series.I even seen a lot of series that have the first book free to purchase, and still have the others in KU as well.

Just saying that not everything in KU is a "scam" to make you pay more.

Not on a series basis, no.

But how many authors have *all* their books there?
(There's quite a few but they are a small minority. And, depending on the per-read payout they may end up being even smaller as time moves on.)

And it's not a "scam" to offer up loss leaders to build up a fan base.
But building up a fanbase is generally done with the idea of making them "paying" customers.

That is the logic behind most marketting moves and things like staircase pricing of series titles.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Not on a series basis, no.

But how many authors have *all* their books there?
(There's quite a few but they are a small minority. And, depending on the per-read payout they may end up being even smaller as time moves on.)

And it's not a "scam" to offer up loss leaders to build up a fan base.
But building up a fanbase is generally done with the idea of making them "paying" customers.

That is the logic behind most marketting moves and things like staircase pricing of series titles.

Depends on priorities. Complete series may in fact be in the minority - and if you say so I believe it without asking for a source or example. If however you look for complete series, you can still find a lot of them. I know, because I have first hand experience - my wife already plowed through two complete series and is working on her third at the moment since we started our KU subscription. Also there is a few series that she bought earlier this year or last year that are also complete in KU. Bummer, could have saved money if KU existed sooner. I am working on a trilogy myself (Hugh Howeys Silo Saga) that is complete in KU. He got other books in KU as well - and some he published under S&S probably not.

And even if not all works from one author are in KU does not mean that you HAVE TO read all books. Both of us (wife and me) prefer to only look for complete series if it is a series in KU. There is enough in there that we are not spoilt for choice. Maybe we are bad customers for Amazon and KU, and each author that we read hates us for only committing to the flat fee of KU. We are buying other books sometimes, but not because we seen it in KU, but because they are not in KU.

[Barty]

Re Netflix: they would happily stream new shows and movies in theater if they could, but the studios would not allow it. They'd like to make some profits for their budget busting CGI fests. Hence the release schedule for theatrical, PPV, DVD sale, premium cable, then finally streaming.

You can actually stream new in theater movies to your home right now. You do need a very fancy five figure set top box and pay like $5000 per movie. But if you are a billionaire who doesn't want to mix with the hoi polloi, that's the way to go.

As for KU, an all you can read subscription service that has all the books from indies and BPHs would have to cost a lot more than $10 a month to be viable for both publishers and distributor. And then it would not be attractive to any consumers except serious bibliovores. The closest we may get is a service like classic DVD Netflix which has all books that are out for some months and which limits number of items you can check out a month.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Barty

You can actually stream new in theater movies to your home right now. You do need a very fancy five figure set top box and pay like $5000 per movie. But if you are a billionaire who doesn't want to mix with the hoi polloi, that's the way to go.

Mark Cuban's MAGNOLIA PICTURES has streamed movies on XBOX simultaneously with their theatrical release. But, being art house indie movies, the theatrical release is only a few hundred screens worth.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Barty

Re Netflix: they would happily stream new shows and movies in theater if they could, but the studios would not allow it. They'd like to make some profits for their budget busting CGI fests. Hence the release schedule for theatrical, PPV, DVD sale, premium cable, then finally streaming.

Some streaming (monthly subscription) will never take place - Star Wars, Indiana Jones, etc.

[Atunah]

Originally Posted by dengar

Ok, here is the problem I currently see with the Kindle Lending program and now with Unlimited.

I just finished Steel World by B.V. Larson, the first of his Undying Mercenaries series (great scifi book btw). Looking through the series, Book 1 and 2 are Unlimited but Book 3 is not. I get hooked on a series thats Unlimited then bam! I have to pay to continue the series. This ticks me off to no end. Its happening more and more.

Imagine watching Breaking Bad on Netflix and they tell you that you have to pay extra for the last season. You would be pissed too.

I agree with that. I also see this and It doesn't make me want to start such a series. Its annoying to me.


I don't care about loss leader or marketing for authors. I just don't care. I am a reader and I am paying $10 a month already to read those books. That is really all I care about. How many books do I read to make it worth $10. And I don't want "leftover" books either. I actually have seem some self publishers talk about that. Some don't want their "good" books in KU, but they'll throw in some stuff to supposedly funnel readers to their "good" books they then have to purchase in addition. Why would I go out and read something of that author again when I can't read their "good" stuff. Yikes

So why would I read the 1st in a series and then pay for the rest in addition to the monthly subscription fee. I might as well not have the KU then and buy the 1st out right too. Would be cheaper. I have started a series where the first was not in KU, but on sale for 99 cents and so far the other 12 parts are in KU. So I bought grumbling the first and now read the others. If they get pulled in the middle of me reading the series, I will be pissed. And I will not buy the rest of them then either.

So I am very careful with series titles in KU. I check to see how many of the series are in it, I want at least several. Thankfully the amazon imprints don't play that game like indy authors do. All their titles are always in KU, all titles of all series. Montlake, 47th north, Thomas and Mercer. All of them.

Its not like the authors don't get paid for me reading their books in KU. I pay to read them and they get paid.

I have already noticed titles that were in KU when I created a wishlist are being pulled. These are self published or indy presses as far as I can tell. I lost 15 on my wishlist in a week. I would have read those books. Was looking forward to. Now I won't. I have to calculate the subscription fee into my book budget.

As of now I have enough for 5 or so month to read. After that, they better get some more publishers. Its easy enough to cancel with one click thankfully.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Some streaming will never take place - Star Wars, Indiana Jones, etc.

Actually, Indiana Jones is available for streaming right now. http://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_...nid=2941120011

Shari

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by shalym

Actually, Indiana Jones is available for streaming right now. http://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_...nid=2941120011

Shari

Sorry for the confusion, but I meant streaming as part of a monthly subscription. As much as I'd like to re-watch SW, IJ, and JP, I'm not willing to pay anything outside of a streaming subscription.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Atunah

I agree with that. I also see this and It doesn't make me want to start such a series. Its annoying to me.


I don't care about loss leader or marketing for authors. I just don't care. I am a reader and I am paying $10 a month already to read those books. That is really all I care about. How many books do I read to make it worth $10. And I don't want "leftover" books either. I actually have seem some self publishers talk about that. Some don't want their "good" books in KU, but they'll throw in some stuff to supposedly funnel readers to their "good" books they then have to purchase in addition. Why would I go out and read something of that author again when I can't read their "good" stuff. Yikes

So why would I read the 1st in a series and then pay for the rest in addition to the monthly subscription fee. I might as well not have the KU then and buy the 1st out right too. Would be cheaper. I have started a series where the first was not in KU, but on sale for 99 cents and so far the other 12 parts are in KU. So I bought grumbling the first and now read the others. If they get pulled in the middle of me reading the series, I will be pissed. And I will not buy the rest of them then either.

Perhaps it isn't for you. However, I believe the idea behind it is the same idea behind the freebie starter books -- KU subscribers can read all those starters, as well as all the other KU books, without having to pay upfront. Then if they like it enough, they will buy the rest.

So I am very careful with series titles in KU. I check to see how many of the series are in it, I want at least several. Thankfully the amazon imprints don't play that game like indy authors do. All their titles are always in KU, all titles of all series. Montlake, 47th north, Thomas and Mercer. All of them.

Its not like the authors don't get paid for me reading their books in KU. I pay to read them and they get paid.

Indie authors only get a portion of the total KU compensation pool, based on how many people borrow their books, I believe. Big 5 books get the sale price. That is certainly how KOLL works, and I believe I have heard the same thing about KU.

[Atunah]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Perhaps it isn't for you. However, I believe the idea behind it is the same idea behind the freebie starter books -- KU subscribers can read all those starters, as well as all the other KU books, without having to pay upfront. Then if they like it enough, they will buy the rest.

That might be the self publisher idea. But why in the world would I pay $10 a month to read freebies. And I have noticed that. Many of the books I find through genre sifting in KU are books I already own as freebies. I have been getting kindle books including freebies since 2008. Many many self publisher make their books free at some point. So if it was interesting then in the genre I read, I already have it.
That is why KU needs more publishers.
You say that the big 5 get paid their regular rate, but they aren't participating in the program. There are some smaller publishers in it like Open road and some Sourcebooks I believe, but no Penguin, Harpercollins, random, S&S.

If they could get a couple of the big 5, this would be fantastic. They can do like they do on Scribd. Not having the newest books in the program, but back list titles. That would be fine with me.

And to be clear, I don't expect every author to put every book into the program. I only have issues with the series stuff. If they are stand alone books and lets say the author has 8 total books and puts 4 in KU, that is great. Then if I like those 4, I might purchase the others outright.
Its this teaser business I don't appreciate. If I want a teaser I read the sample, or I get the free book outright. I don't need a paid subscription for that.

Like I said, subscription programs have to be part of my book budget. So a portion of what I will read when paying for such subscriptions will have to be part of that. I am funneling that reading away from books I would have maybe bought on sale or as a daily deal. Shifting what I read basically.

[Hampshire Nanny]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

I won't start a series until I have access to the whole thing.

I'm pretty much the same -- but "having access" to the whole thing doesn't have to mean being able to get the books for free or from the same source or whatever. I plan my attack on the series looking at free books (or books included in a subscription), books which can be borrowed from the library, or books which have to be purchased. I make up my mind whether I'm willing to buy the later books in the series when I get ready for them. I **don't** buy them up front. I put them on my wish list in case someone wants to give it to me for a gift. THEN, when I get that far into the series, if I haven't gotten the book as a gift and I'm enjoying the series enough, I'll buy the book for myself. But sometimes, I really am not enjoying the series enough to put my money down. And that's fine too.

Originally Posted by copyrite

I lurk in a forum where indy authors have discussed KU strategies... and putting only the first book or first couple books in a series is one of the ideas that has been mentioned, so clearly there are a number of authors who do that deliberately.

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Perhaps it isn't for you. However, I believe the idea behind it is the same idea behind the freebie starter books -- KU subscribers can read all those starters, as well as all the other KU books, without having to pay upfront. Then if they like it enough, they will buy the rest.

And I'm very thankful that the authors and publishers have been giving away freebies. There have been quite a few that I picked up which led me to obtain the subsequent books in the series. Sometimes I buy and sometimes I borrow from the library.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Atunah

That might be the self publisher idea. But why in the world would I pay $10 a month to read freebies.
.

Because they won't be free anymore.
One purpose of KU is to do away with permafree titles.
One thing many publishers have noticed is that free loss-leaders aren't driving sales the way they used to.