The Jim Butcher Files: Dresden . Codex Alera . Cinder Spires & More

[AlbertaCowboy]

Originally Posted by alansplace

...Jim and Frost

When my dog was a pup, we lived on an acreage in the country, and there were coyotes everywhere. I usually carried my .22 with me when we'd go for walks in the evening just in case I needed to defend him. After awhile, I couldn't be bothered to haul the rifle around, and since we aren't allowed to carry handguns here in Canada, I'd take him for walks with my bullwhip coiled on my shoulder. I almost wished a 'yote woulda made a move, but none ever did.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

That is not the official party line... OK, I guess you mean the ones who've been tempted?

And of course you can collect them. Collecting != using. And Nick is pretty good at doing both, actually. (He gets other people to use the others, so it's by proxy.)

Ok, collecting as Nicky does would count. Have to disagree on the party line of the church. They don't have the power to actually do as they say.

(Spoiler can include any book including Skin Game)

Spoiler:

In earlier books it may seem that the churchs game is to use the Knights of the Cross to take the coins out of circulation. That is not true, as that would mean taking away free will. By eliminating the free will to make bad choices. The sole purpose of the 3 knghts is to control that each of the 30 coins does not corrupt one single person for too long. As can be seen in stories told by Nicodemus and Michael in Skin Game. If all coins would be destroyed or locked up, the 3 Knights would be gone too - as nobody needs saving from the coins. The angels have the power to stop denariens if and only if they step over the line. Same would apply the other way around if somebody actually tried to destroy the coins for good.

Interesting times, I feel all 33 knights (of cross and blackened denarien) will play some major role during the apocalypse at the end of the series. Maybe on the same team, maybe on opposing teams. Apocalypse will be certain to come as there is already 3 post-apocalyptic books planned to tie up the Dresden Files.

[alansplace]

Quoted from muddycolors.blogspot.com




'Dresden and the Denarian' - By Dan dos Santos

[bizzybody]

Nice painting. He needs a hat... *runs and hides*

[BuyMore]

Originally Posted by alansplace

Quoted from muddycolors.blogspot.com




'Dresden and the Denarian' - By Dan dos Santos

Ooh. A nice profile. Wish we could see the entire face.

[alansplace]

Harry Dresden and Michael Carpenter ...
I just read this book the other day. I love
Harry's cheesy vampire costume.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by alansplace

Harry Dresden and Michael Carpenter ...
I just read this book the other day. I love
Harry's cheesy vampire costume.

Haha, love the general.

[alansplace]

Uploaded on Aug 7, 2014

Recorded for GISHWHES 2014, in the style of Doctor Byron Orpheus, Necromancer. (find out what GISHWHES is here)

This particular scavenger hunt item was a video of a New York Time Best-Selling Author performing a dramatic reading from the California state driver's manual.

The actual video could only be 15 seconds long. This is the entire raw recording. One take, too.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by alansplace

[video]
Uploaded on Aug 7, 2014

Recorded for GISHWHES 2014, in the style of Doctor Byron Orpheus, Necromancer.

This particular scavenger hunt item was a video of a New York Time Best-Selling Author performing a dramatic reading from the California state driver's manual.

The actual video could only be 15 seconds long. This is the entire raw recording. One take, too.

Excellent performance. Read like this I wouldn't mind seeing the manual of electronic devices or the side effects of prescription drugs. Actually, I wouldn't mind a recipe for squirrel soup.

(well, I would not eat squirrel )

[alansplace]

..........................

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Ok, collecting as Nicky does would count. Have to disagree on the party line of the church. They don't have the power to actually do as they say.

(Spoiler can include any book including Skin Game)

Spoiler:

In earlier books it may seem that the churchs game is to use the Knights of the Cross to take the coins out of circulation. That is not true, as that would mean taking away free will. By eliminating the free will to make bad choices. The sole purpose of the 3 knghts is to control that each of the 30 coins does not corrupt one single person for too long. As can be seen in stories told by Nicodemus and Michael in Skin Game. If all coins would be destroyed or locked up, the 3 Knights would be gone too - as nobody needs saving from the coins. The angels have the power to stop denariens if and only if they step over the line. Same would apply the other way around if somebody actually tried to destroy the coins for good.

Interesting times, I feel all 33 knights (of cross and blackened denarien) will play some major role during the apocalypse at the end of the series. Maybe on the same team, maybe on opposing teams. Apocalypse will be certain to come as there is already 3 post-apocalyptic books planned to tie up the Dresden Files.

Just because the Church doesn't have the power to back up their desires, doesn't mean they want the coins in circulation. I would think they'd like a world in which neither the coins nor the knights exist. Free will would not be affected, as the knights wouldn't be around either.

Since that isn't an option being offered, they settle for deploying the knights to keep the coins out of circulation for as much of the time as they can manage.

What are the knights needed for anyway, if the coins don't exist?

That being said, I do agree that both are Meant To Be, regardless of what any puny mortals may think or wish.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Just because the Church doesn't have the power to back up their desires, doesn't mean they want the coins in circulation. I would think they'd like a world in which neither the coins nor the knights exist. Free will would not be affected, as the knights wouldn't be around either.

Since that isn't an option being offered, they settle for deploying the knights to keep the coins out of circulation for as much of the time as they can manage.

What are the knights needed for anyway, if the coins don't exist?

That being said, I do agree that both are Meant To Be, regardless of what any puny mortals may think or wish.

I beg to differ, but free will would be affected. Coins stand for greed, corruption, and other human flaws. And then there is more powerful ones like the one that Nicodemus has. How do you take all those 30 concepts away without altering free will? Why did the angels fall (blackened Denarien) if it wasn't for free will? Unfortunately I am not educated enough in the bible to know what the silver coins there are meant to do. Or how Jim Butcher altered their function in the Dresden Files. He sure is not only using the bible for reference, but other myths and legends as well.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

I beg to differ, but free will would be affected. Coins stand for greed, corruption, and other human flaws. And then there is more powerful ones like the one that Nicodemus has. How do you take all those 30 concepts away without altering free will? Why did the angels fall (blackened Denarien) if it wasn't for free will? Unfortunately I am not educated enough in the bible to know what the silver coins there are meant to do. Or how Jim Butcher altered their function in the Dresden Files. He sure is not only using the bible for reference, but other myths and legends as well.

Oh so if the coins didn't exist, neither would greed/corruption/other human flaws? The real world begs to differ...

The coins contain an embodiment of an archetype, yes... but they aren't the source of all evil. They merely represent an undistilled example.

(I am the wrong person to ask about the Biblical meaning of 30 pieces of silver. I ascribe no supernatural importance to the story of Jesus -- being Jewish, I merely think of him as a false messiah who challenged a group, the Romans, who weren't amused. Nothing to see here.)

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Oh so if the coins didn't exist, neither would greed/corruption/other human flaws? The real world begs to differ...

The coins contain an embodiment of an archetype, yes... but they aren't the source of all evil. They merely represent an undistilled example.

(I am the wrong person to ask about the Biblical meaning of 30 pieces of silver. I ascribe no supernatural importance to the story of Jesus -- being Jewish, I merely think of him as a false messiah who challenged a group, the Romans, who weren't amused. Nothing to see here.)

Disclaimer: Please do not take offence in me using the words like religion and mythology interchangably. I respect whatever your belief system is, as long as you are not trying to recruit me or convince me you are right and I am wrong. To me every religion is the same, as I do not believe in any. That also does not mean that my belief system is better or worse than your system.


Yes I see now. And you are right. The coins do not discriminate which religion you are when you take them. Neither do the swords.

It is strange that angels exist with the power to undo galaxies from christian mythology, thus explaining the earth beeing created by that one god. But you also have other mythologies (e.g. greek) with their own real gods that exist. And then you also have vanilla science in the book.

Spoiler:

spoiler from Skin Game:

Spoiler:

You said you are Jewish, like the new super-hero-knight-of-the-cross Butters. He asked himself why he was chosen. And that is a valid question.

I mean it is fiction, but the rules and the world are all plausible. And I can understand why Butcher uses mostly christian references - after all his target audience is christian dominated here in the US.

[eschwartz]

No offense taken, I try to be more or less the same way. (I have noticed in the past, you seem to be extra careful to not step on religious toes. )

I agree that the rules and the world are plausible -- as all the best series' are. I also happen to be fairly opinionated about what I think is plausible.

I think Christian references are fascinating -- and I keep in mind that since fantasy books aren't real life, they can pretty much say whatever (as long as it doesn't offend good taste) without contradicting my beliefs -- and with that in mind:

I simply feel that it makes a better and more believable story if the coins are a distilled example rather than a source. It seems to fit more logically. That's all I was saying, and my tangent about real life was an accidental example of a harmless conversation turning into an equally harmless, but disconcertingly serious discussion. And we can't be having with seriousness here, now can we?

But that is a pretty good point about why knights of the cross are sometimes not Christians, even markedly so. Look at Shiro, a devout Buddhist. One of the things I admire about the Dresdenverse -- the way it has a very refreshing look at interfaith relationships and the idea that has been clearly expressed, that religion seems to be more of a channel for peoples' desire to just do the right thing. We could do with a bit more of that in the real world, what with things in the last few weeks.

Anyway, enough of the serious.