Amazon's own ebook format

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by barryem

Do any of you remember about 15 years ago when Barnes and Noble got into ebook publishing for about 2 or 3 years and then decided to drop it. I think that was on the Palm platform if I remember correctly. With about a month's notice they ceased to allow downloads. If you changed devices you were out of luck. You lost the book. It happens. I think I lost a book or two but they were books I'd read and didn't plan to read again. But a lot of people lost a lot of books.

It launched 13 years ago (or at least this was one of the launches):
http://www.the-digital-reader.com/20...-12-years-ago/

And it shut down in September 2003:
http://www.the-digital-reader.com/20...-up-on-ebooks/

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

I remember when they sold ebooks the first time, they stopped in September 2003. Amazon sold ebooks before the Kindle came into being (from 2001-2006) too and folks lost access to those books as well.

Amazon never actually stopped selling ebooks. They just stopped carrying the commercial formats (PDF and MSReader) in 2006-ish:
http://www.the-digital-reader.com/20...november-2000/

And in their defense, they didn't control the ebooks they were selling so when Amazon stopped selling them users suffered the same fate as when Fictiownise or many other ebookstores shut down. My point is that this wasn't just Amazon but a structural flaw shared by many ebookstores.

[sirmaru]

Originally Posted by jswinden

+1

Yes, if he spent less time reading these threads and posting his thoughts, as bizarre as his thoughts are, he might be able to read two books per year instead of one!

I purchased ELEVEN eBooks from Amazon in 2013 of which 9 have been completed and I am currently reading two.

By the way, all of us INCLUDING YOU waste too much time here. At least I am retired and have plenty of spare time. I assume you work for a living and are losing money every minute you spend here.

I find this Forum very entertaining and INFORMATIVE. Its the ONLY Forum I've been following in the last three months.

What I have just learned from Harry's post above is that all those Sony epub eBook files probably can NOT be stripped of DRM by Alf since I acquired them 2 generations ago of PC's. Thus, Alf will not find any decryption codes for them on my current PC.

I would have to go back to Sony and install their current PC reader and then re-download the epub eBooks again to convert them to Amazon format if I wanted to open them on my Kindles.

My question to you or anyone else, who cares to answer, what would happen then to my highlights and notes on all those epub eBooks? Would they come over with the Calibre / Alf conversions? How would I get them all in the Amazon Cloud? Would they have to be sent as eBooks or Documents?

One more question: can the Calibre / Alf combo decrypt my old MS PC Reader and Adobe Reader DRM protected eBooks. I cannot get those readers again since I have long forgotten my ID's and passwords when I acquired them?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

The problem with nitpicking an the extra copy point is that you cannot read an ebook without making multiple copies - one for each of your devices.If having extra copies is bad then you pay for them, right?

Those are authorised copies, made with the permission of the copyright holder. The copy you give to your friend is unauthorised, and a violation of copyright. It's not nitpicking - it's the fundamental issue.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by sirmaru

What I have just learned from Harry's post above is that all those Sony epub eBook files probably can NOT be stripped of DRM by Alf since I acquired them 2 generations ago of PC's. Thus, Alf will not find any decryption codes for them on my current PC.

I would have to go back to Sony and install their current PC reader and then re-download the epub eBooks again to convert them to Amazon format if I wanted to open them on my Kindles.

If these Sony books are in EPUB format and use Adobe DRM, then you can indeed install Adobe Digital Editions, re-download the books, and have Alf remove the DRM.

If the books are so old that they are in Sony LRF format, then I don't know if DRM can be removed. I wasn't e-reading at the time of LRF and don't know the format.

My question to you or anyone else, who cares to answer, what would happen then to my highlights and notes on all those epub eBooks? Would they come over with the Calibre / Alf conversions? How would I get them all in the Amazon Cloud? Would they have to be sent as eBooks or Documents?

You will lose all highlights and notations. They are stored on the reader (or nowadays, in the cloud, probably), while Alf and Calibre only handle the books.

One more question: can the Calibre / Alf combo decrypt my old MS PC Reader and Adobe Reader DRM protected eBooks. I cannot get those readers again since I have long forgotten my ID's and passwords when I acquired them?

Not if you have lost the ID's. You must be able to download, open, and thus read the original, DRM-ed books. If you can do that, Alf can remove DRM. If you lost your ID's, you can't decrypt the books anymore.

Alf doesn't actually "crack" DRM. It removes it by decrypting the book, using the key (YOUR key, based on YOUR ID) that Adobe Digital Editions itself uses. This is the reason you must have ADE installed and working properly.

As said, this means that you can't un-DRM books from someone else. Your neighbor can't just give you some DRM-ed books and then ask you to remove the DRM, because these books are encrypted while downloading, using HIS ID, and thus HIS key. You can't decrypt them with your key.

It also means that you can't remove the DRM of your own books anymore, if you lost your ID (and thus, your key).

Obviously your neighbor could un-DRM his own books and then give them to you, and you would be able to read them. That would be illegal however. You reading them wouldn't be, but the fact that he gave them to you is. (In the Netherlands, removing DRM for your own use, if you know how, is not illegal. Distributing the un-DRM-ed material afterward *IS* illegal.)

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by sirmaru

By the way, all of us INCLUDING YOU waste too much time here.

I can assure you that I spend an amount of time here which is precisely correct for me. To the second.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

IIf the books are so old that they are in Sony LRF format, then I don't know if DRM can be removed. I wasn't e-reading at the time of LRF and don't know the format.

The LRF format has no DRM. The DRM version of the format is "LRX".

[sirmaru]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

You will lose all highlights and notations. They are stored on the reader (or nowadays, in the cloud, probably), while Alf and Calibre only handle the books.

Thanks for the answers. Actually, I never re-read an old book but do like to go back to all my highlights and notes. Your answer makes clear that is not possible.

The highlights and notes are the sum total of what I wanted to remember about the books.

Amazon stores highlights and notes here:

https://kindle.amazon.com/your_highlights

I'm not sure if that site is only for American residents or all Amazon customers. Its too bad Sony, Adobe and Microsoft never had sites like that to the best of my knowledge; but, even if they did, had I forgotten my ID for Adobe and Microsoft, I would have not been able to access them anyway.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The LRF format has no DRM. The DRM version of the format is "LRX".

There you are. I don't know the old Sony format(s)

I started out with e-readers in late 2007 (MOBI and some LIT), quit again early 2008, had a hiatus of about 4 years, and at that time EPUB / AZW3 were the only two that (still) actually counted

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by sirmaru

Thanks for the answers. Actually, I never re-read an old book but do like to go back to all my highlights and notes. Your answer makes clear that is not possible.

The highlights and notes are the sum total of what I wanted to remember about the books.

Amazon stores highlights and notes here:

https://kindle.amazon.com/your_highlights

I'm not sure if that site is only for American residents or all Amazon customers.

I can see the site, but there isn't anything there.

Your Highlights
You do not have any Kindle books associated with this account.

That's quite correct: I don't have any books on the Kindle that were directly downloaded from Amazon, and WIFI is off. If I had downloaded books on the reader, directly from Amazon, AND would have had WIFI on AND would actually have made annotations, I expect that it'd work. Why wouldn't it?

Its too bad Sony, Adobe and Microsoft never had sites like that to the best of my knowledge; but, even if they did, had I forgotten my ID for Adobe and Microsoft, I would have not been able to access them anyway.

At the time MS and Sony got into e-readers, WIFI on the device was great luxury. My first reader cost around €400, and basically all it could do was set the font and display a book. (I was actually fine with that )

Adobe does not sell its own e-books AFAIK. They just maintain/oversee the EPUB format and sell the DRM-scheme for it; all the rest is up to the booksellers.

[barryem]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I must, with the greatest possible respect, beg to differ. If the person you "share" it with would otherwise have bought the book themselves, the author has lost a sale.

If you loan a paperback book to your friend the author has lost a sale.

If you pass your newspaper to someone when you're done with it the publisher has lost a sale.

When you share your house with your wife some a builder has lost a sale.

When you handed down an old shirt to your younger brother the clothing industry lost a sale.

Barry

[pidgeon92]

Originally Posted by sirmaru

Thanks for that information on how to convert from AAC to MP3. Are those newly created MP3 files protected in some way like how many devices can use them?

No, they are just regular MP3s. Only non-DRMd titles can be converted via iTunes. I believe that all music on iTunes is now DRM free, but titles that were purchased from the iTunes store prior to the conversion to DRM free are still protected. I still have several of these in iTunes.

That said, I generally purchase my music from Amazon; it tends to be cheaper there and I get cash back on my Amazon Visa card.

If I were wanting MP3s instead of AACs, I'd definitely stick to Amazon.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by barryem

If you loan a paperback book to your friend the author has lost a sale.

If you pass your newspaper to someone when you're done with it the publisher has lost a sale.

When you share your house with your wife some a builder has lost a sale.

When you handed down an old shirt to your younger brother the clothing industry lost a sale.

Barry

But when you loan the book to your friend, you and he can't read it simultaneously; when you give your brother a shirt, you and he can't wear it at the same time. With the e book you are creating another copy of the book and giving that copy to your friend - both you and your friend now have the book. That's the fundamental difference. Two people now have the book when previously only one person did.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by sirmaru

Thanks for that information on how to convert from AAC to MP3. Are those newly created MP3 files protected in some way like how many devices can use them?

Sometimes in Pandora, the option to buy a song I hear only has an Apple option and not an Amazon option. If the Apple songs purchased were unprotected, I could use them on all my devices.

Yes all music that Apple currently sells is DRM free and can be converted to equally DRM free MP3 versions.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by pidgeon92

If I were wanting MP3s instead of AACs, I'd definitely stick to Amazon.

That'd be best, also because of the fact that AAC is lossy, just like MP3. Converting an AAC that already lost quality compared to a CD to MP3 will make it lose more quality. It's like copying from cassette to cassette, becoming worse with each copy/conversion.

This is the reason why I will keep buying CD's, so I can rip them to FLAC myself. FLAC is lossless, and can be converted to any other lossless format without losing quality. (And if I need to, I can generate an MP3 or AAC or any other library in any format I want.)

If I'd buy digital music, it'd be in FLAC format only. Or, of course, another lossless format such as Monkey's Audio (APE) or even Apple Lossless (ALAC) which would then be converted to FLAC.

[sirmaru]

Originally Posted by HarryT

But when you loan the book to your friend, you and he can't read it simultaneously; when you give your brother a shirt, you and he can't wear it at the same time. With the e book you are creating another copy of the book and giving that copy to your friend - both you and your friend now have the book. That's the fundamental difference. Two people now have the book when previously only one person did.

I have 4 Kindles with my wife using two and I use two. I buy all the eBooks from Amazon and download them to all four Kindles.

My wife reads from 2 of them and I read from 2 of them. We sometimes read the same eBook and use bookmarks so we don't get confused. If that occurs, I usually start the eBook first and then she starts later so our bookmarks can easily tell the locations.

The eBooks are merely stored in her Collection of Reading and in my Collection of Reading.

Are we in technical violation of the copyright rules or would we have to be careful that one finished entirely before the next person starts? That is usually the case anyway.