Amazon's own ebook format

jbcohen · 12-30-2013, 07:23 AM

What are the advantages to Amazon's customers of Amazon having its own ebook format rather than using the standard epub format?

pdurrant · 12-30-2013, 07:32 AM

Amazon has the ability to introduce new features in their ebook format without waiting for a standards body to approve them.

(Although I'd prefer that everyone got together and actually improved ePub, rather than just introducing bells and whistles.)

jbcohen · 12-30-2013, 07:42 AM

Are you telling me that there is no standards comitte that is meeting on a regular basis to consider additions and changes to the format? Any other advantages?

David Munch · 12-30-2013, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbcohen

Are you telling me that there is no standards comitte that is meeting on a regular basis to consider additions and changes to the format?

Linky linky

jbcohen · 12-30-2013, 08:02 AM

Thanks david didn't know anything about them.

Nate the great · 12-30-2013, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbcohen

What are the advantages to Amazon's customers of Amazon having its own ebook format rather than using the standard epub format?

For one thing, there was no Epub format when Amazon set out to develop the Kindle. There wasn't even an Epub when Amazon launched the Kindle.

Also, when Amazon bought Mobipocket in building the Kindle format, they acquired an industry standard format. Mobipocket met all of the requirements needed to comply with the Epub 1.0 standard. Oh, it wasn't called Epub but that doesn't change the fact that Mobi met the standards.

And so did MSReader, for that matter. If that confuses you then the important difference here is that the 1.0 standards all focused on production and distribution, not on serving up the same file to all consumers.

And to continue Paul's point, Amazon announced their new KF8 ebook format in October 2011 and released it to the world in January 2012. It's (mostly) supported by all of their devices and apps, including the 2010-era K3.

How is support for the committee-approved Epub3 coming along? Is there even one significant Epub vendor besides Apple that offers complete support for Epub3?

tubemonkey · 12-30-2013, 08:34 AM

What good are standards when companies slap their own DRM schemes to their titles, thereby rendering them incompatible with ereaders from other companies?

Even though the majority of companies use EPUB for their ereader format, I'm willing to bet that the majority of all ebooks sold in the US are in Kindle format. I can't find any figures on this. Has anyone else been able to?

ProfCrash · 12-30-2013, 10:19 AM

Amazon will not release figures so there are none to be had. But most of the speculation is that Amazon controls the US market and potentially controls the English Language market.

One of the common complaint is that Amazon does not use EPub but, as Nate points out, there was no EPub when the Kindle was released. While it is possible that Amazon refused to share its format with other e-readers, driving them to EPub, it is also true that most of the major EPub booksellers tack on their own DRM or make some subtle changes to the EPub so that it is harder to read their books on other devices.

I am not sure if BN books can be easily read on a Kobo or Sony now, I know for a long time they couldn't. I have read that Kobo has its own special varient on EPub which is a bit of a pain in the wazoo.

It sounds to me that EPub is a lot like Android. It has great potential but everyone who wants to make money forks it making the overall operating system a pain in the butt for programmers to work with. Which leaves programmers loving working with Apple because it is one operating system. Closed but well mantained and you don't have to write 8 different varients of one program to sell in the Apple store.

jswinden · 12-30-2013, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

What good are standards when companies slap their own DRM schemes to their titles, thereby rendering them incompatible with ereaders from other companies?

Even though the majority of companies use EPUB for their ereader format, I'm willing to bet that the majority of all ebooks sold in the US are in Kindle format. I can't find any figures on this. Has anyone else been able to?

Over a year ago I read a Wall Street Journal (I think) report on eBooks. It claimed that based on various financial tracking methods that Amazon sold about 67% of all eBooks sold in the USA. That was back when Nooks were still popular and Sony still sold readers in the USA market. I wish I could remember where I saw this article, but I don't. I think the article used facts and figures from the major publishers to determine who was selling what, and the big PUBS were stating 67% of the eBooks they sold were in Amazon format.

I'm inclined to agree that eBook formats don't matter as much with all the DRM each book store uses. It does matter to the few of us who strip DRM, but most consumers probably don't strip DRM, or even know much about it.

ProfCrash · 12-30-2013, 11:12 AM

Yup. I had a bunch of friends get Kindles this Christmas. I sent messages letting them know I can help if they want to remove DRM. They all came back with "What is DRM?" and then that they were not interested because they are only buying from Amazon any way.

We should be proud, we are special and in the minority of people with a clue. If anything goes screwy in the e-reader world, we will be prepared.

Ohhhh we are e-reader preppers!

Mike L · 12-30-2013, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

I sent messages letting them know I can help if they want to remove DRM. They all came back with "What is DRM?" !

This doesn't surprise me in the slightest. This forum is full of people who are passionate about DRM (or its removal), and also about ebook formats, ebook standards, meta data, price differentials, Calibre, managing your library, and all the other things that we discuss here every day.

But the vast majority of ebook users in the world have not the slightest interest in these topics. They buy (or are given) a reader so that they can read books. All the technical paraphernalia is irrelevant. (Which is exactly how it should be.)

Mike

DiapDealer · 12-30-2013, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike L

All the technical paraphernalia is irrelevant. (Which is exactly how it should be.)

Mike

I would not say the technical paraphernalia has any sort of duty to be irrelevant. It should be totally optional--if you're not interested in it--yes. But I hope it never becomes completely irrelevant. Someone needs to keep up with how it all works.

sirmaru · 12-30-2013, 12:40 PM

I buy all my eBooks from Amazon and don't care what formats they use. If I can read them on my Kindles, then they have met MY needs.

Calibre and Apprentice Alf are totally IRRELEVANT to MY eBook reading hobby.

Outrager · 12-30-2013, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirmaru

I buy all my eBooks from Amazon and don't care what formats they use. If I can read them on my Kindles, then they have met MY needs.

Calibre and Apprentice Alf are totally IRRELEVANT to MY eBook reading hobby.

Okay.

hap · 12-30-2013, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirmaru

I buy all my eBooks from Amazon and don't care what formats they use. If I can read them on my Kindles, then they have met MY needs.

Calibre and Apprentice Alf are totally IRRELEVANT to MY eBook reading hobby.

Since we are sharing...I don't buy any of my ebooks from Amazon and Calibre and Apprentice Alf are totally RELEVANT to my ebook reading hobby.

Since you wanted us to know your view so badly I figured you were equally as eager to learn ours. Enjoy

12-30-2013, 07:23 AM	#1
jbcohen Wizard Posts: 3,032 Karma: 11196738 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Where am I? Device: Kindle Paperwhite Signature edition and a Samsung S24 Ultra	Amazon's own ebook format What are the advantages to Amazon's customers of Amazon having its own ebook format rather than using the standard epub format?

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12-30-2013, 07:32 AM	#2
pdurrant The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠 Posts: 73,948 Karma: 315160596 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Norfolk, England Device: Kindle Oasis	Amazon has the ability to introduce new features in their ebook format without waiting for a standards body to approve them. (Although I'd prefer that everyone got together and actually improved ePub, rather than just introducing bells and whistles.)

12-30-2013, 07:42 AM	#3
jbcohen Wizard Posts: 3,032 Karma: 11196738 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Where am I? Device: Kindle Paperwhite Signature edition and a Samsung S24 Ultra	Are you telling me that there is no standards comitte that is meeting on a regular basis to consider additions and changes to the format? Any other advantages?

12-30-2013, 08:02 AM	#5
jbcohen Wizard Posts: 3,032 Karma: 11196738 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Where am I? Device: Kindle Paperwhite Signature edition and a Samsung S24 Ultra	Thanks david didn't know anything about them.

12-30-2013, 08:34 AM	#7
tubemonkey monkey on the fringe Posts: 45,762 Karma: 158733736 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Seattle Metro Device: Moto E6, Echo Show	What good are standards when companies slap their own DRM schemes to their titles, thereby rendering them incompatible with ereaders from other companies? Even though the majority of companies use EPUB for their ereader format, I'm willing to bet that the majority of all ebooks sold in the US are in Kindle format. I can't find any figures on this. Has anyone else been able to?

12-30-2013, 10:19 AM	#8
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	Amazon will not release figures so there are none to be had. But most of the speculation is that Amazon controls the US market and potentially controls the English Language market. One of the common complaint is that Amazon does not use EPub but, as Nate points out, there was no EPub when the Kindle was released. While it is possible that Amazon refused to share its format with other e-readers, driving them to EPub, it is also true that most of the major EPub booksellers tack on their own DRM or make some subtle changes to the EPub so that it is harder to read their books on other devices. I am not sure if BN books can be easily read on a Kobo or Sony now, I know for a long time they couldn't. I have read that Kobo has its own special varient on EPub which is a bit of a pain in the wazoo. It sounds to me that EPub is a lot like Android. It has great potential but everyone who wants to make money forks it making the overall operating system a pain in the butt for programmers to work with. Which leaves programmers loving working with Apple because it is one operating system. Closed but well mantained and you don't have to write 8 different varients of one program to sell in the Apple store.

12-30-2013, 11:12 AM	#10
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	Yup. I had a bunch of friends get Kindles this Christmas. I sent messages letting them know I can help if they want to remove DRM. They all came back with "What is DRM?" and then that they were not interested because they are only buying from Amazon any way. We should be proud, we are special and in the minority of people with a clue. If anything goes screwy in the e-reader world, we will be prepared. Ohhhh we are e-reader preppers!

12-30-2013, 12:40 PM	#13
sirmaru Wizard Posts: 2,426 Karma: 6561538 Join Date: Nov 2007 Device: Kindle PW 2013, HDX 2013, Galaxy S5 2014	I buy all my eBooks from Amazon and don't care what formats they use. If I can read them on my Kindles, then they have met MY needs. Calibre and Apprentice Alf are totally IRRELEVANT to MY eBook reading hobby.

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