why would anyone want Android OS on a tablet?

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Billi

I don't think that this is true. I think truth is that eink reader producers don't let you care about the OS, that ereaders are very closed devices despite of having linux under the hood, more closed than the respective android readers. But the interest of the consumers is there to change their devices a little bit, add this app, add that app, change this setting - look in the different developers parts of our forum here.

The hobbyist/enthusiast community exists to be sure (here we are!), but compared to the overall consumer market these devices are designed for, I believe it's so small a percentages as to round down to zero, hence the "no one."

[Billi]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Certainly - ebook readers are sold (on the whole) as dedicated devices, not as general-purpose computers. Android tablets, on the other hand, are sold as open devices onto which people can install apps. It's a different market.

I wasn't comparing ereaders and android tablets but linux ereaders and android ereaders like for instance the Sony 650 and T1. It is the same market and paradoxically the linux devices are more closed. And ereader producers make it more and more difficult for the users to install their own programs. Onyx could be more open, Pocketbook was more open in the past, and when I've understood some threads from the Kindle forum rightly then they too are making it more difficult to have any modifications.

[wodin]

Originally Posted by Sgt.Stubby

(of course the same cannot be said for linux-based phones and thus buyers are still largely trapped into the Android walled-garden).

Walled-garden? I think not, if anything it's more like a picket fence, as exemplified by a stroll through XDA-developers.

BTW SGT. how is it that you come into a forum with such a controversial topic with a total of 17 (and counting) posts?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Billi

I wasn't comparing ereaders and android tablets but linux ereaders and android ereaders like for instance the Sony 650 and T1. It is the same market and paradoxically the linux devices are more closed. And ereader producers make it more and more difficult for the users to install their own programs. Onyx could be more open, Pocketbook was more open in the past, and when I've understood some threads from the Kindle forum rightly then they too are making it more difficult to have any modifications.

Unfortunately the producers have good reason to try and "lock down" the devices. A small number of "bad apples" spoil things for everyone by, in the case of the Kindle, buying ad-supported devices at a discount, and then finding methods of removing the advertising without paying the premium for doing so, or hacking the 3G service on the 3G device, then using it to provide Internet tethering for a PC. It only takes a small number of people like that to spoil things for everyone.

[arjaybe]

I thought the hokum about Linux had run its course and was fading away. Apparently not yet in the land of devices, I see. It's okay. We can wait for you to catch up.-)

rjb

[ApK]

Originally Posted by wodin

BTW SGT. how is it that you come into a forum with such a controversial topic with a total of 17 (and counting) posts?

I was thinking the same thing, but if this thread was created only as flame bait, it is unoffensive, interesting flame bait, and I have no problem with that. Fun thread.

ApK

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by arjaybe

I thought the hokum about Linux had run its course and was fading away. Apparently not yet in the land of devices, I see. It's okay. We can wait for you to catch up.-)

rjb

Huh? Hokum? Linux is not for everybody, but using distributions such as Ubuntu it is *no more* difficult to use than Win7 or Win8. There is no need to dig deep into the internals to get it to work. And a great part of the internet runs on linux servers.

I, personally, don't like Win8, but I don't accuse those that like it of spreading *hokum*.

[arjaybe]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Huh? Hokum? Linux is not for everybody, but using distributions such as Ubuntu it is *no more* difficult to use than Win7 or Win8. There is no need to dig deep into the internals to get it to work. And a great part of the internet runs on linux servers.

I, personally, don't like Win8, but I don't accuse those that like it of spreading *hokum*.

I can see how you got the opposite of what I meant. ie, that I was saying that Linux is hokum, when I meant that so much of what people say about it is hokum. Funny.-) I like Linux because it is so easy to use, while not hiding the power underneath.

rjb

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by arjaybe

I can see how you got the opposite of what I meant. ie, that I was saying that Linux is hokum, when I meant that so much of what people say about it is hokum. Funny.-) I like Linux because it is so easy to use, while not hiding the power underneath.

rjb

Doh! I get a bit protective with Linux because of the many tales of how hard it is to use. My apologies for coming on strong.

[arjaybe]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Doh! I get a bit protective with Linux because of the many tales of how hard it is to use. My apologies for coming on strong.

s'alright. I like your pink dog.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by arjaybe

I thought the hokum about Linux had run its course and was fading away. Apparently not yet in the land of devices, I see. It's okay. We can wait for you to catch up.-)

rjb

Originally Posted by arjaybe

I can see how you got the opposite of what I meant. ie, that I was saying that Linux is hokum, when I meant that so much of what people say about it is hokum. Funny.-) I like Linux because it is so easy to use, while not hiding the power underneath.

rjb

Then I'm bit confused. On devices, it seems Linux is usually hidden by an embedded custom layer of some kind, often resulting in wonderfully easy to use, powerful devices.

On the desktop, while it's certainly true that Linux distros have come a LONG way since I first tried to install version 0.9 off of 20 5.25" floppies, and it is indeed true that day-to-day desktop app use is no harder than Windows or OSX (in fact my 7 and 10 year old kids use my Linux laptop for web browsing and playing Minecraft as readily as they use my wife's stock Chromebook), it is also indisputable that many common admin tasks, software installs and the use of many common apps and utilities--the kind of stuff a home consumer responsible for his her or her own support and maintenance is likely to need now and then -- are still often far more complex then their Mac or Windows equivalents.

[arjaybe]

Originally Posted by ApK

Then I'm bit confused. On devices, it seems Linux is usually hidden by an embedded custom layer of some kind, often resulting in wonderfully easy to use, powerful devices.

On the desktop, while it's certainly true that Linux distros have come a LONG way since I first tried to install version 0.9 off of 20 5.25" floppies, and it is indeed true that day-to-day desktop app use is no harder than Windows or OSX (in fact my 7 and 10 year old kids use my Linux laptop for web browsing and playing Minecraft as readily as they use my wife's stock Chromebook), it is also indisputable that many common admin tasks, software installs and the use of many common apps and utilities--the kind of stuff a home consumer responsible for his her or her own support and maintenance is likely to need now and then -- are still often far more complex then their Mac or Windows equivalents.

This is just the kind of hokum I was talking about. But I do note that it is moderated by words like "many," "likely" and "often."

rjb

[ApK]

I've never known 'hokum' to translate as 'direct observation' before.
I fully expect the "many," "likely" and "often" to continue to progress toward "few," "unlikely" and "rarely" but they are not there yet compared to the more popular desktop OSes.
When Linux software distribution is down to one package type that all users can know will work, and it doesn't require typing "sudo" or "apt-get" or similar anywhere in the download or install process, then come back and try to make the hokum point again.

One recent example that comes to mind:
I had to install Oracle's Java on my Linux box so my kids could play Minecraft.
On Windows, and presumably Mac, if it's not there already, that involves going to java.com and clicking a button or two. I could walk my mother through that on the phone.

Here's the instructions for installing it on Ubuntu:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java

Here's another key observation point: If Linux is every bit as simple to setup, use and maintain on the home desktop as Windows, why is is not quickly killing Windows on the home desktop, like Android is killing Windows on mobile devices? It's FREE for goodness sake? Manufacturers should be falling over themselves to save MS license fees on new machines. What do you think is holding the market back?

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by ApK

When Linux software distribution is down to one package type that all users can know will work, and it doesn't require typing "sudo" or "apt-get" or similar anywhere in the download or install process, then come back and try to make the hokum point again.

I had to install Oracle's Java on my Linux box so my kids could play Minecraft. On Windows, and presumably Mac, if it's not there already, that involves going to java.com and clicking a button or two.

I don't know what distribution you are using, but there is *no* need to type "sudo" or "apt-get" in the Ubuntu distribution I'm currently using.

Click on Applications -> System Tools -> Administration -> Ubuntu Software Center. Type "Java" in the search box and hit return. First on list is OpenJKD Java (I realize that it isn't oracle, but it works with Minecraft). Click and click on install. Installs.

I spent 1/2 hour this morning trying to figure out how to do a simple (seemed to me) administrative action on Win7. Lots of typing in search boxes trying to figure the right combination of words to get the right answer.

I realize that you've probably been using Windows for a long time and have a lot of experience in getting things done. Because you don't have experience with another OS doesn't mean that it's wrong or bad, just different. I've never really advocated that the entire world should move to Linux. As I said somewhere above, it isn't for everybody. But it *isn't* any harder to use than Windows or Mac. Believe me. I have nearly 30 years experience with Windows and 20 with Linux. Both can be extremely frustrating.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

I don't know what distribution you are using, but there is *no* need to type "sudo" or "apt-get" in the Ubuntu distribution I'm currently using.

Does that not depend on if you have the repository configured, if the thing you want is even IN a repository, and how that thing is packaged? Sure seems to be. I'd not have known to mention it if I had not run into it.

Click on Applications -> System Tools -> Administration -> Ubuntu Software Center. Type "Java" in the search box and hit return. First on list is OpenJKD Java (I realize that it isn't oracle, but it works with Minecraft).

The Minecraft Linux install instructions say "please use Oracle's JVM."
Why should a typical user not follow the instructions?

I spent 1/2 hour this morning trying to figure out how to do a simple (seemed to me) administrative action on Win7. Lots of typing in search boxes trying to figure the right combination of words to get the right answer

I realize that you've probably been using Windows for a long time and have a lot of experience in getting things done. Because you don't have experience with another OS doesn't mean that it's wrong or bad, just different.

It's not that. I can adapt. I'm good enough at this stuff as both a technologist and a tech trainer to understand the difference between "different" and "harder" in context, and I can make a disctinction between stuff a typical user would need to do in the course of owning a computer versus stuff that they should not need to mess with.

I've never really advocated that the entire world should move to Linux. As I said somewhere above, it isn't for everybody.

Why on Earth not, then? If it's as easy as Windows or Mac, plus is free, who is it NOT for?