why would anyone want Android OS on a tablet?

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Sgt.Stubby

(of course the same cannot be said for linux-based phones and thus buyers are still largely trapped into the Android walled-garden).

You say "trapped."
Many say "frolicking happily."

[Sgt.Stubby]

Originally Posted by ApK

One of our very astute users here described Linux apps as tools for techy people who like to make things harder for themselves.

To novices, it would certainly appear that way. And while the gnu and unix way is hard on novices, it's actually easier for advanced users. There's an inversion. To sufficiently advanced users, GUI=manual labor. point-click-point-click... one action at a time; it's too slow. The expressive power and speed of the CLI using tools that are interoperable by design and quickly scriptable far exceeds what one can do mousing around in an ecosystem where apps are not designed for interoperability.

Originally Posted by ApK

The reason pure Linux isn't used on tablets instead of Android? Same reason it still hasn't killed OSX and Windows on the desktop. Times 10.

First of all, Android OS is the minority (we're not talking phones here- look at the comparison chart). So you're starting with a false premise. And no, it's a whole different set of factors involved. In the 90s, linux was not designed with novices in mind, giving non-linux non-unix GUI-centric systems a big head start, followed by a very slippery slope with copious momentum from users resistant to change, and resistant to using something different than everyone else.

That is not in the slightest the circumstance for which linux-based tablets evolved. It would be as if Ubuntu and Windows had emerged at the same time and users starting from scratch - some of whom have gained some wisdom from how proprietary business models control users options.

[Sgt.Stubby]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Android is open.

Google Inc's marketing works wonders on people.

All Androids are proprietary. What Google supplies to the vendors is open. What the buyers get from the vendors is a binary blob. Not only is the source code withheld by the vendor, but the buyer does not even get root access (by design) or even visibility to parts of the storage, binary and otherwise.

For more detail, RMS is the leading authority on this, see what he has to say.

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Yes, there are proprietary versions,

All of them are. Only two vendors even attempted to produce a non-proprietary Android device. One is very obsolete and in the end still had closed blobs (Geeksphone), and the other has not made it to market (Fairphone).

Originally Posted by jgaiser

but I run Cygenomod on my B&N HD+. No need to work through any *holes*". Running 4.2 now. When I'm ready to upgrade to 4.3, I can and will.

When you flash the firmware, you have a very different product than what you bought. No vendor will sell you a Cyanogenmodded device, nor will any vendor allow users to install it, to the extend of their power.

As soon as you bring in hacks, well then you might as well claim everything in the world is open, because everything can be hacked, and have all binary blobs replaced with open replacements.

Originally Posted by jgaiser

So where exactly are you going with this? Sounds just like "Linux Rules" rant to me.

I can see that it would look that way, but I had two objectives:

* Find out if there is anything particularly appealing about Android e-readers that I'm unaware of.

* Find out which non-Android linux e-readers are proprietary, and which ones are open, if any. There are a lot of them and I've studied very few.

Among all the defensive replies, I expected someone to say: linux device XYZ is proprietary just as Android is... (so I can take it off my shortlist).

[DoctorOhh]

Originally Posted by Sgt.Stubby

First of all, Android OS is the minority (we're not talking phones here- look at the comparison chart). So you're starting with a false premise.

You started with the title of this thread being "why would anyone want Android OS on a tablet?" Anyone reading that title would not think you are talking about e-ink devices found in the ereader comparison chart. So you are starting from a false premise. Android tablets outsell Linux tablets by a at least a bazillion.

If you had limited your discussion to eink readers some of your arguments might make sense but in the world of tablets your info is sorely lacking.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Sgt.Stubby

I can see that it would look that way, but I had two objectives:

* Find out if there is anything particularly appealing about Android e-readers that I'm unaware of.

No, you were asking about tablets, not readers. They are completely different things.

Among all the defensive replies, I expected someone to say: linux device XYZ is proprietary just as Android is... (so I can take it off my shortlist).

All devices are proprietary. There's no such thing as a non-proprietary device. What do you have against ownership?

[Sgt.Stubby]

Originally Posted by ApK

One of the best things about Linux is that it facilitates so many cool and successful solutions that get built on top of it, like Tivo, Kindle, DD-WRT, and...oh, yeah...Android.

When an open product is repackaged/bundled as a proprietary one, it loses quality, versatility, usefulness, and trustworthyness.

Originally Posted by HarryT

... which just goes to prove that what's under the hood is irrelevant. The typical user neither knows nor cares what o/s the device is running.

A car buyer may not directly care what it looks like under the hood, but if the mechanics job is made difficult, the buyer is hit too. Users benefit indirectly from having sensible mechanics under the hood (as opposed to the racket you get with BMW and the special proprietary computer that's needed and only available to "certified" BMW mechanics).

A closed ecosystem impacts the quality of available apps. A lot of android apps are junk.. lots of spyware and adware, quickly evident when you look at the list of permissions required by a random sampling of arbitrary apps. Just as most of the junk you get in the Windows ecosystem created by those trying to make a buck, as opposed to those produced by the FOSS community, usually with nothing monetary to gain - just pride.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Sgt.Stubby

A closed ecosystem impacts the quality of available apps. A lot of android apps are junk.. lots of spyware and adware, quickly evident when you look at the list of permissions required by a random sampling of arbitrary apps.

"Walled gardens" can also POSITIVELY impact the quality of apps. The reason many people prefer iPads to Android tablets is that iOS apps are often of much higher quality than Android, precisely BECAUSE it's a walled garden, and apps are vetted by Apple before being allowed to be sold. It's not a process that's 100% effective, of course, but it works pretty well.

[Rizla]

Android works pretty well on the Nook ST I'm using. Seems pretty 'open' to me. I can run a plethora of apps.

Also custom builds of Android are available, so the source must be available. Android seems pretty open to me.

Also it's designed for mobile apps, which is good for e-readers.

What's the point re-inventing the wheel? Android does the job well and has a ton of apps available. The source is available. What's the problem? I don't see any practical advantage running Linux over Android on a portable device.

[Sgt.Stubby]

Originally Posted by DoctorOhh

You started with the title of this thread being "why would anyone want Android OS on a tablet?" Anyone reading that title would not think you are talking about e-ink devices found in the ereader comparison chart. So you are starting from a false premise. Android tablets outsell Linux tablets by a at least a bazillion.

If you had limited your discussion to eink readers some of your arguments might make sense but in the world of tablets your info is sorely lacking.

"Tablet" was the wrong word for me to put in the subject.. Now I can see the cause for confusion. But certainly the question cannot be a "false premise" when it contains no premise nor implies one in the first place.

There are several kinds of display technologies, and the discussion is (or should be) orthogonal to that. I was using the word "tablet" in the most generic sense possible, to refer to handheld devices that are not phones, regardless of the display technology.

If we must split hairs on semantics, what do you call a handheld device that has both a backlit LCD and a separate screen that is some form of e-ink? Is it an e-reader, or a tablet?

What do you call a handheld device with a dual-mode screen, which can be a backlit LCD in one mode of operation, and a reflective LCD in another mode of operation?

[Rizla]

I do applaud any work done by the Linux community making Linux useful for touch and portable devices. One day I might use it myself if I see a practical reason to change.

[ApK]

If you're talking about eink readers and not tablets, then the answer is far simpler: No one* cares what OS their ereader runs because it's an appliance with one embedded app.
You mention the appeal of CLI to advanced Linux users. Where you under the impression that any significant chunk of the reader market is 'advanced linux users'?

ApK

*for definition of 'no one', see Douglas Adams' math on the population of the universe.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Sgt.Stubby

When an open product is repackaged/bundled as a proprietary one, it loses quality, versatility, usefulness, and trustworthyness.

No. There is the POTENTIAL for all those things to be true, but in practice, well-funded proprietary projects often yield a far better user experience in all those areas, for most typical consumers. Professionals with a financial interest in the success of a consumer product often produce better stuff.

Compare, say, the consumer usability of MythTV vs. Tivo. MythTV users happily spend their time on tech forums maintaining their systems. Tivo users just happily use their DVRs for it's intended purpose.

Or more relevant to this forum, compare the success and consumer satisfaction of Kindle or Nook users vs OpenInkPot users...oh, wait...ARE there any OpenInkPot users?

So regardless of whether you meant this thread to be about ereaders or tablets, the word in the title that seem to be the root of your problems is "anyone." By "anyone" you apparently meant "advanced Linux hobbyists."
You seem to misunderstand the nature of the population of the world.

Substituting what you apparently meant:
"Why would advanced Linux hobbyists want Android OS on an eink reader?"
The answer would be: They wouldn't, particularly, I'd think.

[DoctorOhh]

Originally Posted by ApK

If you're talking about eink readers and not tablets, then the answer is far simpler: No one* cares what OS their ereader runs because it's an appliance with one embedded app.

True.

[Billi]

Originally Posted by ApK

If you're talking about eink readers and not tablets, then the answer is far simpler: No one* cares what OS their ereader runs because it's an appliance with one embedded app.

I don't think that this is true. I think truth is that eink reader producers don't let you care about the OS, that ereaders are very closed devices despite of having linux under the hood, more closed than the respective android readers. But the interest of the consumers is there to change their devices a little bit, add this app, add that app, change this setting - look in the different developers parts of our forum here.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Billi

I don't think that this is true. I think truth is that eink reader producers don't let you care about the OS, that ereaders are very closed devices despite of having linux under the hood, more closed than the respective android readers. But the interest of the consumers is there to change their devices a little bit, add this app, add that app, change this setting - look in the different developers parts of our forum here.

Certainly - ebook readers are sold (on the whole) as dedicated devices, not as general-purpose computers. Android tablets, on the other hand, are sold as open devices onto which people can install apps. It's a different market.