Tor/Forge Books Announces DRM-Free E-book Store

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by GreenMonkey

You're doing the equivalent with Amazon's DRM, or, realistically, any company's DRM except for perhaps Adobe DRM epub - that's the closest equivalent to DVD DRM (DRM but with no particular vendor lockin) to me is standard Adobe epub DRM - at least that is used across a few different companies (Sony, Kobo, etc).

No, the equivalent of DVD DRM is the B&N form.
It does not require the existence of any third party servers to validate the book/device combination, which Adept DRM does. It may be used by several companies, but if Adobe stop supporting it, it is game over.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

It may be used by several companies, but if Adobe stop supporting it, it is game over.

...which they have done once already, with a previous content protection scheme.

[GreenMonkey]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

No, the equivalent of DVD DRM is the B&N form.
It does not require the existence of any third party servers to validate the book/device combination, which Adept DRM does. It may be used by several companies, but if Adobe stop supporting it, it is game over.

Oooh, didn't realize that Adobe DRM had a call home to authorize - I generally buy DRM epub from B&N on the rare occasions I buy it.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Percentage of those people who've found and downloaded the de-drm tools: 1%

Percentage who've found and downloaded one particular set of de-DRM tools: 1%. There are other options, just not as well-known.

The other options include, "Having trouble figuring out all the technical talk at Apprentice Alf's blog? I've downloaded the files into my own archives so I've got them in case the original disappears--let me borrow your laptop and I'll get it all installed for you."

Are the Calibre DRM-removal plugins coming from the same source?

And of course, those numbers don't show any hint of the people who eschew DRM altogether.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by GreenMonkey

Oooh, didn't realize that Adobe DRM had a call home to authorize - I generally buy DRM epub from B&N on the rare occasions I buy it.

It doesn't have to call home each time the file is opened or downloaded, but most ADE books only work on the authorized devices--if Adobe stops supporting ADE (they way they stopped supporting PDFs usable with Acrobat 6) after a few more upgrades, you won't be able to transfer those books to a new device, because the new device won't be able to be registered.

For B&N's DRM, all you need is the credit card number that was used to purchase the book. How long will you keep that around?

And if the publisher pulls the book from the store, it may or may not be available for future download. While this is less problematic--after all, you don't expect a replacement copy of a pbook if it's no longer being sold--the stores encourage people to load to their devices, not their computers, and delete from the device when done reading, and re-download if they want to re-read. They often imply, without stating outright, that once you've bought it, it'll always be available, which is not necessarily true.

Simple reason why not: if a lawsuit decides the book itself was infringing copyright--if John Scalzi's "Redshirts" is pulled from publication over trademark or copyright issues--it may be pulled from people's libraries as well. (I don't think that'll happen in this particular case.)

Basically, DRM means you don't control how you can use the book; the company *providing the DRM* does. Not the author, not the publisher... whoever verifies the DRM controls the future use of the book. As long as their control isn't very restrictive, very few people care. However, at least three major ebook DRM providers have gone out of service, leaving customers stuck with books they can't read in the future:

Amazon, with its PDFs from 2005-2007,
Adobe, with PDFs readable on Acrobat 6 (which included the ability to read on PDAs)
Microsoft, which stopped supporting .lit entirely fairly recently.

I suspect the next major one will be non-Kindle Mobipocket, which is owned by Amazon; they may decide to stop allowing other mobi books to be sold with DRM. Since most other stores have shifted to DRM, this wouldn't affect them much--but it'd leave thousands, maybe millions, of customers stuck with books that can't be read on future devices.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I suspect the next major one will be non-Kindle Mobipocket, which is owned by Amazon; they may decide to stop allowing other mobi books to be sold with DRM. Since most other stores have shifted to DRM, this wouldn't affect them much--but it'd leave thousands, maybe millions, of customers stuck with books that can't be read on future devices.

I thought Mobipocket died around the same time MS announced it was killing off LIT?

[ApK]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

I thought Mobipocket died around the same time MS announced it was killing off LIT?

The format is functionally identical to the Kindle format, readable on the same devices and apps, and still creatable with existing tools. Several stores and publishers still offer content in non-kindle mobi format.

If that's dead, I don't know what dead means.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by ApK

The format is functionally identical to the Kindle format, readable on the same devices and apps, and still creatable with existing tools. Several stores and publishers still offer content in non-kindle mobi format.

I'm talking about DRM'd Mobipocket, as Elfwreck was mentioning. The Mobipocket store is dead, you can no longer download the Mobi software from them.

Where can DRM'd Mobi books be purchased now? I suppose maybe OverDrive still has there Mobi DRM servers up?, because it doesn't appear Mobipocket themselves do.

If that's dead, I don't know what dead means.

You can still get non-DRM'd LIT files from places too, but as far as DRM goes it's a dead format.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

I'm talking about DRM'd Mobipocket, as Elfwreck was mentioning. The Mobipocket store is dead, you can no longer download the Mobi software from them.

Where can DRM'd Mobi books be purchased now? I suppose maybe OverDrive still has there Mobi DRM servers up?, because it doesn't appear Mobipocket themselves do.

OK, I think I'm misunderstanding Elfwreck's post.

You can still get non-DRM'd LIT files from places too, but as far as DRM goes it's a dead format.

Nah, LIT is more deader than mobi.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by ApK

Nah, LIT is more deader than mobi.

....

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by MidnightBlue

I suppose that if I had to change eReaders and I had some unread books on my old one it might be a problem, but I am happy with my Kindle and if something happened to it I would just buy another one. As for all the books that I had bought and already read, I would hardly need to have those in a new format. I think that DRM is an issue for a very small number of people, probably most of them geeks.

Some people won't buy a new Kindle if the old one dies. That's because of the line height bug in the KF8/AZW3 part of the firmware. So they either lose the eBooks they've bought or they can strip the DRM and convert.

I would hate to be locked into a given brand of reader just because of DRM. I want choices and removing the DRM gives me choices. Also, going ePub gives me more choices without having to format shift as almost all readers support ePub except Amazon.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by bgalbrecht

I don't think it will be all that successful, since the biggest factor for most Kindle (and Nook) owners is the ability to purchase a book, either from a PC or from the eReader itself, and have it automatically download to the eReader from either 3G or Wifi without having to connect the eReader to a PC.

You left out the T1 which can purchase with a computer and the T1 does one thing over WiFi that no other reader does. It allows library ePub to be downloaded without the need for a computer.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by GreenMonkey

DRM'd e-books aren't as bad as Steam - at least you don't have to worry that when the company folds, the remote-authentication servers aren't there any more. But still...would you buy DVDs or Blu-rays that would only play on Sony players, and count on Sony always being around?

If Adobe was to get out of the DRM business, you could still be screwed. If you needed to buy a new system drive because your current one is dying or has died. You buy a new computer to replace your old one...You lose the key to the ePub.

Look at Mobipocket. When I last upgraded my desktop computer, I tried to move the PID to the laptop. It was a big failure. The PID is tied into the computer. Sure, I was able to strip the DRM no problem. But if you aren't able to strip DRM, consider your eBooks dead.

Stripping the DRM is the only way I can be assured my eBooks will be usable in the future. I have not registered my 650 with Adobe because it never gets an eBook on it with DRM. They go through Calibre with has the plugins to remove the DRM. It's a seamless process.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by ApK

OK, I think I'm misunderstanding Elfwreck's post.

I was under the impression that secure mobi ebooks were still available from other-than-Amazon. A bit of looking around seems to indicate that they're gone. Was there an announcement that mobi DRM would no longer be available anywhere but Amazon? (It might've been announced on two dozen sites; I don't shop at DRM-only bookstores so I can easily miss that kind of thing.)

A year ago, mobipocket.com sold ebooks.

*googles a bit*

Aha!
RIP: Mobipocket 2000-2011

To better serve authors, publishers and customers, Amazon is consolidating eBook sales & publishing to the Kindle Platform. Mobipocket will not accept new eBook submissions for sale on Mobipocket.com or its affiliated retailers after Dec 2, 2011 and will stop all sales and remove your existing eBooks after Jan 2, 2012.

Amazon no longer allows other stores to sell secure mobi ebooks. Wow.

[Fbone]

How much support is there for the secure eReader format? Is that dying also?