Touch Kobo Touch Firmware 2.0

[VirgoGirl]

Originally Posted by yhamm

Try this link for a screenshot of the main screen:

http://blog.kobobooks.com/new-and-im...op-experience/

Thanks!

My opinion, as a user, for what it's worth:

Not a fan, I honestly think all the "push to buy" links are counterintuitive, they make me *never* want to buy from Kobo. Really, and I'm not a fanatic about my ereader, it's off putting to have some much commercialization built into the software.

I've bought your reader, I know where you are if I want to buy books, back off. It's intrusive - I find it intrusive to have a "Discover" link next to my "Library" link, and 2 of the 3 links at the bottom aimed at cajoling me to spend money. I know Kobo is in the business of selling books, but I'd prefer to seek out the opportunity, rather than have it shoved in my face every time I turned on my reader. It's just useless clutter to me.

For my preference, it would be better to have a "Library","ShortList" (or "Shelves") and "Reading Life" set of links at the top, and a "Store" link underneath the covers. Under that "Store" link put "Wishlist" and "Discover".

[taming]

A few years ago there were a slew of eINK devices that had no formal connection to the actual selling of eBooks. They cost around $400. Most of the are now gone. There is no way that any reader can be competitive at the currently acceptable price point without a heavy reliance on selling books and making money that way.

We read all the time that Amazon is willing to lose money on their devices (eINK and Fire) because they know that they will drive sales to them--not just of books but also clothing, hardware, etc.

I think it is disingenuous to expect an affordable device while at the same time expecting the selling aspect to be hidden away. I am happy that there are no ads on my home screen and I am glad that the home screen has a clean look. Nothing forces me to click on any of the home screen links that take me into the commercial part of the device.

If there are eInk readers out there that do not offend you by integrating selling into the reader experience, then buy one of those.

In the meantime, this is a commercial product and it is not Build a Bear. We do not each get to redesign the user experience to meet our individual preferences. And while you consider this, also remember that Kobo listened to a huge number of people who hated the short list and asked for "real" bookshelves. They also hated the carousel, which held the hidden links to the store functions.

I am sure that Kobo is paying attention to posts from folks who have different opinions about this. I am also pretty sure that if changes are going to be made based on these comments, they will not be the first changes we see. I'd much rather have them work on the issues like funky sideloaded fonts and slow ePUB page changes, myself.

[murg]

Originally Posted by rashkae

b) be acceptable to the fact that Kobo's primary missoin is to sell content.

I bought an eReader, not a subscription to a store. Not an invitation to be pelted with ads.

In Australia, Kobo really doesn't exist outside of their website, which you would only know about if you have one of their eReaders. I've seen no advertising for Kobo. If I wanted to be locked to a retailer, I would have bought a Kindle.

I didn't buy a discounted Touch, the one with the advertising. Now, I'm getting the advertising.

As it is, most of my books are sideloaded, and Kobo now has a history of treated sideloaders poorly. Each release has significant bugs related to sideloaded books. Bugs that should have been spotted easily with any sort of testing. I mean, the top margin disappearing on sideloaded books (in 1.9.17)? Really? How could the most cursory testing miss this? Sideloaded fonts not rendering properly (in 2.0.0)? Really? How could the most cursory testing miss this?

Not to mention that this is the second release IN A ROW that Kobo has had major problems in the release, enough so that they have had to pull the release and reissue it.

Kobo clearly has a problem with testing. They clearly don't do sufficient alpha testing, especially on the sideloaded side of the product. They clearly don't do sufficient beta testing, especially on the sideloaded side of the product. Part of the beta testing problem may be that they've selectively chosen their beta testers from the cheerleaders for the product.

As it is, I'm starting to think that they really don't do any alpha testing, and use their beta testers for the alpha tests. Their real beta testers are their customers. They release buggy firmware with easy to find defects (I mean, the people in this forum found them in a matter of hours), and then don't fix these defects for months and months (it's now 4 months since the last release).

One of the main selling points, from Kobo at least, is the reading awards and social froufrou. How could they do a release that doesn't guarantee that this information doesn't get lost. I mean, logging out of their Desktop causes all your history to disappear? Really? Ok, while I think that this is a bad design bug, I personally don't care about the history functions: I'm well aware of how much I read.

In a perversity of the universe sort of way, I hope that the release of the Japanese Touch is as buggy as the rest of the world's version. Then, their new owners may realise that they are running a consumer electronics company and not a book store, and make changes to Kobo development process to reflect this. Amazon is totally focused on the customer experience. I have no idea what Kobo is focused on.

And finally, Kobo's communication with their customers is horrendous. We are forced to upgrade their software without notice or choice. We are forced to upgrade their firmware without notice or choice. They have at least 4 different sets of instructions on how to do a factory reset. None of their instructions for resets, either factory, basic, PIN, paperclip or otherwise, include what the non-technical consumer should see on the device, like LED activity or what should show up on the screen. I had to do an internet search to discover that when doing a factory reset, you wanted to see a Red LED, which meant that the reset request had been acknowledged by the Touch. And even then, it was some posts (not on any Kobo site) about the Libertine(?) that triggered that little, but very important, bit of knowledge.

[murg]

Originally Posted by taming

A few years ago there were a slew of eINK devices that had no formal connection to the actual selling of eBooks. They cost around $400. Most of the are now gone. There is no way that any reader can be competitive at the currently acceptable price point without a heavy reliance on selling books and making money that way.

This is the normal price progression of consumer electronics.

In a few years, eReaders (if they haven't been supplanted by cheap tablets) will probably be in the $50 range.

In Australia, the retail price of a Kobo Touch has dropped by 1/3 in the last year. For the exact same product.

[taming]

Originally Posted by murg

In Australia, the retail price of a Kobo Touch has dropped by 1/3 in the last year. For the exact same product.

And selling on device is part of what has made that possible. The alternative is likely for there to be no Kobo eINk devices.

[MacEachaidh]

Originally Posted by VirgoGirl

My opinion, as a user, for what it's worth:

Not a fan, I honestly think all the "push to buy" links are counterintuitive, they make me *never* want to buy from Kobo. Really, and I'm not a fanatic about my ereader, it's off putting to have some much commercialization built into the software.

I've bought your reader, I know where you are if I want to buy books, back off. It's intrusive - I find it intrusive to have a "Discover" link next to my "Library" link, and 2 of the 3 links at the bottom aimed at cajoling me to spend money. I know Kobo is in the business of selling books, but I'd prefer to seek out the opportunity, rather than have it shoved in my face every time I turned on my reader. It's just useless clutter to me.

For my preference, it would be better to have a "Library","ShortList" (or "Shelves") and "Reading Life" set of links at the top, and a "Store" link underneath the covers. Under that "Store" link put "Wishlist" and "Discover".

My sentiments too, VirgoGirl.

On other aspects of the matter, I'm glad to see Kobo hasn't abandoned development for the Touch, whatever else it may have on the boil. A pity, though, that this firmware has come such a visible cropper for some people. I'm very glad that I was one of the lucky ones who had no real issues with the upgrade beyond having to log out and back in and losing my bookmarks and stats. Not a big deal compared to others' experiences, and I use my KT all the time, so I really sympathise at what a pain it must be to suddenly have it bricked. Hope they get it sorted soon, folks.

There are a couple of things I don't much like about the changes, but apart from those represented by VirgoGirl's comments above, they're small.

One little annoyance for me, though, is hyphenation when the text is fully justified. I had no problem prior to this with the spacing sometimes necessary for right justification, and find the sometimes-erratic hyphenation (I've just come across an instance where machine was hyphenated as mac-hine!!) far more disruptive to reading flow. Has anyone discovered a way to turn the hyphenation off?

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by taming

If there are eInk readers out there that do not offend you by integrating selling into the reader experience, then buy one of those.

The thing is (and I guess it's true for a lot of people): When I bought the Touch, there was no advertising on it. It was ad-free.

I had to pay about 160 USD for my Kobo. (It's cheaper now - if I had paid the 120 USD it costs now and had known there was advertising on it, okay... but I paid the full price for an ad-free reader.)

Then the extra carousel came. And now there's even more advertising than before. To me it's more interesting than the carousel. It's better made.

But I understand why people dislike it. And one "tab" - discover (maybe named differently) - would have been enough so that the other 2 could have been used to enhance the reading experience and access stuff already on the reader (for example by having a shortlink to the shelves and to the shortlist).

Or maybe there could be two slightly different homescreens.

Reading - the lower tabs show library, shortlist and shelves (for example)
Discover - the lower tabs show wishlist, find books, and whatever else

Not sure how exactly this could be designed, but if there were 2 different screens, one only trying to offer me the best possible navigation of stuff I already own and the other offer me the best possible navigation of books I might like to buy, it would be much nicer - and might not repell those who hate advertising (or at least not that strongly).

And while you consider this, also remember that Kobo listened to a huge number of people who hated the short list and asked for "real" bookshelves. They also hated the carousel, which held the hidden links to the store functions.

I never heard anyone say "ditch the shorlist". They just wanted shelves in addition. We now have that, but the shortlist is mostly useless because it's buried in between the shelves. If it was on top at least, but no... so why even bother to keep the shortlist at all?

I hope they'll bring it back to the homescreen and/or the Library menu.

People complained about the carousel because it first introduced advertising (which also takes up a good amount of internal memory, mind you, not only space on the homescreen).

But lots of people who had the carousel set to shortlist actually liked that and recommended others to use it that way. If you did that, the advertising was hidden, which it isn't anymore. Every time you go to the homescreen you'll see discover, find books and wishlist, which will be annoying to some people.

So having three "advertising links" on the homescreen instead of one (the carousel) is kind of a step backwards.

Also I don't get my money back now that I have a reader with advertising instead of the ad-free reader I've bought.

Personally I don't care that much as long as they don't only improve on the advertising but actually make the reading experience better. And I will not buy books I don't like, no matter how hard they try to push me.

(Like sending an email nagging me to buy a book I've looked at on the Kobo website. I would have bought it if I would have thought it to be interesting, so no need to try to push me to buy it. It's kind of annoying, really, like those guys selling sunglasses at the beach and running after you even and telling you how nice and cheap those sunglasses are though you've already said no...)

I am sure that Kobo is paying attention to posts from folks who have different opinions about this. I am also pretty sure that if changes are going to be made based on these comments, they will not be the first changes we see. I'd much rather have them work on the issues like funky sideloaded fonts and slow ePUB page changes, myself.

I hope they will and I agree with you, especially on the slow ePub page turns. If they'll listen to us and further improve the homescreen (I actually like the look, just wish for some other tabs below the 5 books), fine, but page turns and fonts are much more important.

[JD Gumby]

Originally Posted by yhamm

Try this link for a screenshot of the main screen:

http://blog.kobobooks.com/new-and-im...op-experience/

"We’ve fine-tuned the profile quiz so that we can get to know your reading style a bit better. Take the quiz when you first sign in to help us suggest books that suit your reading tastes."

Eww. Never saw that (then again, I never sign out of the program since I'm the only one who uses it and you don't need to login each session), thankfully. Wonder if they let you skip it? Not about to log out and check, though.

[rashkae]

Originally Posted by murg

As it is, most of my books are sideloaded, and Kobo now has a history of treated sideloaders poorly. Each release has significant bugs related to sideloaded books. Bugs that should have been spotted easily with any sort of testing. I mean, the top margin disappearing on sideloaded books (in 1.9.17)? Really? How could the most cursory testing miss this? Sideloaded fonts not rendering properly (in 2.0.0)? Really? How could the most cursory testing miss this?

Not to mention that this is the second release IN A ROW that Kobo has had major problems in the release, enough so that they have had to pull the release and reissue it.

Kobo clearly has a problem with testing. They clearly don't do sufficient alpha testing, especially on the sideloaded side of the product. They clearly don't do sufficient beta testing, especially on the sideloaded side of the product. Part of the beta testing problem may be that they've selectively chosen their beta testers from the cheerleaders for the product.

As it is, I'm starting to think that they really don't do any alpha testing, and use their beta testers for the alpha tests. Their real beta testers are their customers. They release buggy firmware with easy to find defects (I mean, the people in this forum found them in a matter of hours), and then don't fix these defects for months and months (it's now 4 months since the last release).

One of the main selling points, from Kobo at least, is the reading awards and social froufrou. How could they do a release that doesn't guarantee that this information doesn't get lost. I mean, logging out of their Desktop causes all your history to disappear? Really? Ok, while I think that this is a bad design bug, I personally don't care about the history functions: I'm well aware of how much I read.

In a perversity of the universe sort of way, I hope that the release of the Japanese Touch is as buggy as the rest of the world's version. Then, their new owners may realise that they are running a consumer electronics company and not a book store, and make changes to Kobo development process to reflect this. Amazon is totally focused on the customer experience. I have no idea what Kobo is focused on.

And finally, Kobo's communication with their customers is horrendous. We are forced to upgrade their software without notice or choice. We are forced to upgrade their firmware without notice or choice. They have at least 4 different sets of instructions on how to do a factory reset. None of their instructions for resets, either factory, basic, PIN, paperclip or otherwise, include what the non-technical consumer should see on the device, like LED activity or what should show up on the screen. I had to do an internet search to discover that when doing a factory reset, you wanted to see a Red LED, which meant that the reset request had been acknowledged by the Touch. And even then, it was some posts (not on any Kobo site) about the Libertine(?) that triggered that little, but very important, bit of knowledge.

Amen Brother (or sister, I wouldn't want to make assumptions).. I've been very.... unhappy with Kobo for a while, and your post hits just about all the salient points.

[six58]

Originally Posted by murg

That's because you're a bloody Canadian...

mmm huh?

[murg]

Well, if Victorians are Mexicans...

and Kobo is Canadian.

[murg]

Originally Posted by rashkae

Amen Brother (or sister, I wouldn't want to make assumptions).. I've been very.... unhappy with Kobo for a while, and your post hits just about all the salient points.

Don't get me wrong, I love the hardware. And, for the most part, the Touch works acceptably.

[lar3ry]

Originally Posted by kianryan

I doubt it. It was a perfectly working feature previously, and in introducing a new feature they've broken something related.

It happens all the time, and users like spinning conspiracy theories about the motivations of the companies.

It's difficult to not think they are up to something pushed by the marketdroids when you see:

-pushy, high pressure advertising, first on the home page, then hidden

-surprise upgrades installed without the user's permission

-bugs in the upgrade that appear to target sideloaded books

-a requirement to use the Kobo desktop in order to upgrade

It'll get fixed. It's just broken.

I hope you're right.

[Danger]

Originally Posted by taming

A few years ago there were a slew of eINK devices that had no formal connection to the actual selling of eBooks. They cost around $400. Most of the are now gone. There is no way that any reader can be competitive at the currently acceptable price point without a heavy reliance on selling books and making money that way.

I strongly disagree, one look at all the electronic gadgets over the years, they ALL drop in price as the years go by and newer gadgets come out. A truly good device, that works well and outshines both in performance hardware wise and software (firmware) will sell better than it's competition. Kobo has a pretty good device hardware wise but they really need to work on the firmware (see my last comment on beta testing). Word of mouth can make or break a company. Selling books is only a bonus to these companies.

Originally Posted by taming

...I think it is disingenuous to expect an affordable device while at the same time expecting the selling aspect to be hidden away. I am happy that there are no ads on my home screen and I am glad that the home screen has a clean look. Nothing forces me to click on any of the home screen links that take me into the commercial part of the device.

If there are eInk readers out there that do not offend you by integrating selling into the reader experience, then buy one of those.

We did, that's why Kobo makes a Kobo with Ads on it, you get that one at a discounted price... Funny I don't remember buying that device. You know how many books I have bought that were shown on my KT? NONE. Know how many books I have bought from Kobo, using their discounts and just browsing their store... 105 books if my count is right. Looking at my library that includes previews of books, I have 43 PAGES of books (that's 422 books total) I am interested in buying. Only a handful of those were Kobo recommendations. Advertisements on the KT had absolutely nothing to do with my decisions to preview or buy any of those books. And you know what if I ONLY buy those books and didn't add any more, even at $5 a book, that's over $2000. So you tell me, what would be the better bet for them to get me to buy just those books? Advertisement on the KT that I despise? Or better promotions through email and/or their site which I do look at and use? BTW, minus the 105 books I already bought = 317 books I am currently interested in, at $7.99 (which is still low, most books sell for 8.99-9.99) that's $2532 before taxes. Pretty hefty chunk of my wallet. But if I'm happy with a company, I don't mind spending the money... if I'm unhappy... well I do indeed go elsewhere.

Originally Posted by taming

In the meantime, this is a commercial product and it is not Build a Bear. We do not each get to redesign the user experience to meet our individual preferences. And while you consider this, also remember that Kobo listened to a huge number of people who hated the short list and asked for "real" bookshelves. They also hated the carousel, which held the hidden links to the store functions.

I am sure that Kobo is paying attention to posts from folks who have different opinions about this. I am also pretty sure that if changes are going to be made based on these comments, they will not be the first changes we see. I'd much rather have them work on the issues like funky sideloaded fonts and slow ePUB page changes, myself.

Well I sure hope they are taking notes on this. I really really like my KT as an eReader. It's truly a great product but we seriously need Kobo to really take a hard look at where they are going with this product. They need to make a much bigger seperation between the ereader itself and their marketing. Marketing should be kept to their website, emails and the Kobo Desktop software. Perhaps shifting their advertising to the area where the Browser resides. Make the browser homepage the Kobo default one. Never used the browser so maybe it already is. Limit the advertising to ONE Link/Menu. Make it inconspicous.

And seriously, I don't want to stomp on anyones toes but get some more and better beta testers. Most of the bugs found within the first few hours of the firmware update should have been caught in the beta testing. I know not all of the bugs can be caught during a beta test but this was ridiculous.

[plib]

Originally Posted by taming

A few years ago there were a slew of eINK devices that had no formal connection to the actual selling of eBooks. They cost around $400. Most of the are now gone. There is no way that any reader can be competitive at the currently acceptable price point without a heavy reliance on selling books and making money that way.

What was the price of the original Kindle? As I recall it was somewhere in that range. I don't have one, I deliberately chose a product that was not tied to a proprietary format and and store, but I've not heard anyone complaining about advertising on a Kindle home screen and they still seem to be around.

We read all the time that Amazon is willing to lose money on their devices (eINK and Fire) because they know that they will drive sales to them--not just of books but also clothing, hardware, etc.

Same question as above. How much advertising is on their home screens? I know Kobo has a store, and I know how to find it. I also know what I want to read and how to find that too. Every time something is pushed in my face it makes me less, not more, likely to follow that link to find it.

I think it is disingenuous to expect an affordable device while at the same time expecting the selling aspect to be hidden away. I am happy that there are no ads on my home screen and I am glad that the home screen has a clean look. Nothing forces me to click on any of the home screen links that take me into the commercial part of the device.

You're entitled to your opinion, others are entitled to theirs. Just because you're happy doesn't mean others will be. Just because you're happy not to be "forced" to click on a link doesn't mean others are going to be happy with those links all over the home page. "Nothing forces me to" is not a particularly good approach to winning hearts and minds, or customers.

If there are eInk readers out there that do not offend you by integrating selling into the reader experience, then buy one of those.

I'm sorry, well I guess I'm not, but that is a really weak response. Reminiscent of "It's my ball and if you don't play by my rules I'm taking it and going home". If something about a reader offends a particular customer the adult, commercial answer is to try to find a way around it, not to tell them to sod off. My reasoned, adult response to someone who tells me to sod off after I've spent money on their device is "you'll get more of my money when Hell freezes over". OK?

In the meantime, this is a commercial product and it is not Build a Bear. We do not each get to redesign the user experience to meet our individual preferences. And while you consider this, also remember that Kobo listened to a huge number of people who hated the short list and asked for "real" bookshelves. They also hated the carousel, which held the hidden links to the store functions.

Why shouldn't it be "Build a Bear". The tweak plugin appears to give users the choice of what they want displayed and the ability to tailor device usage to their preferences. I fail to see the commercial suicide in Kobo allowing the same choices through official firmware. Part of the function of a beta tester is to question both the operation of the program and the assumptions underlying it. A few years ago I was involved in the development of an interface between back office accounting functions and a front end CRM program. The QA manager on that job could destroy a program faster than anyone I've ever seen. I remember him tearing a module interface to pieces within about 60 seconds of loading it. The programmers might not have liked him very much but his bosses did, and they produced a much better product because of him.

I am sure that Kobo is paying attention to posts from folks who have different opinions about this. I am also pretty sure that if changes are going to be made based on these comments, they will not be the first changes we see. I'd much rather have them work on the issues like funky sideloaded fonts and slow ePUB page changes, myself.

Agreed. There are actual operational bugs which have to be sorted. However the interface options are a design choice, they're not tied to operational bugs, and to my mind, and apparently others also, they represent bad choices, driven by someone's marketing assessment which, in my case at least, are counter productive. But then I find a lot of design choices by marketroids to be counter productive.

Edit: All the above said, and I think it's valid, the reported improvements such as picture handling, font adjustment (when they fix sideloaded), clarity and additions such as shelves are welcome and appreciated. As long as they work.