"fan fiction "......

[Yapyap]

Real Person Fic, although not copyright infringement, can probably be potentially libellous I would think...

Quite honestly, RPF tends to squick me, personally, so I stay well away from it; on the other hand, it's not like it's a particularly new tradition - historical fiction writers in particular have been writing real person fic for a very long time, incorporating real historical people into their fictional tales, and most certainly not always sticking to just historically known facts about them.

[citac]

Originally Posted by Yapyap

Real Person Fic, although not copyright infringement, can probably be potentially libellous I would think...

Quite honestly, RPF tends to squick me, personally, so I stay well away from it; on the other hand, it's not like it's a particularly new tradition - historical fiction writers in particular have been writing real person fic for a very long time, incorporating real historical people into their fictional tales, and most certainly not always sticking to just historically known facts about them.

I'm mostly a gen and h/c reader, but I'm asking because I just remembered somebody mentioned that one of the characters in Diana Gabaldon's Outlander books was apparently very closely based on a historical person. I have a couple of flisters who write historical RPF and it occurred to me to ask how it was fine for her to do it, but not them.

[Yapyap]

Originally Posted by citac

I'm mostly a gen and h/c reader, but I'm asking because I just remembered somebody mentioned that one of the characters in Diana Gabaldon's Outlander books was apparently very closely based on a historical person. I have a couple of flisters who write historical RPF and it occurred to me to ask how it was fine for her to do it, but not them.

I'm not sure about that (I haven't read the books myself), but one of her heroes, as I've gathered, Jamie Fraser, is heavily inspired by Jamie McCrimmon, Second Doctor's companion from Doctor Who (played by Frazer Hines).

But of course that's completely different and just fine.

I think there are really two big "issues" with fanfiction, at least for the people who don't "get" it - one is the legal grey area for some (not all!) of it; the other is the inevitable "but why are you using other people's worlds instead of creating your own; that's just wrong".

And yet there is plenty of fanfiction that is perfectly legal, and there is an enormous amount of creative work out there that is transformative in nature - always has been, from the dawn of human storytelling traditions, and always will be. Retelling stories, modifying them, changing them, taking them to new directions, going off on a tangent, being inspired by someone else's stories and giving them your own spin... it's not like it's a particularly new and confusing concept, really.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by Yapyap

Real Person Fic, although not copyright infringement, can probably be potentially libellous I would think...

Quite honestly, RPF tends to squick me, personally, so I stay well away from it; on the other hand, it's not like it's a particularly new tradition - historical fiction writers in particular have been writing real person fic for a very long time, incorporating real historical people into their fictional tales, and most certainly not always sticking to just historically known facts about them.

What about the Dracula story, and every vampire story that followed?

[BeccaPrice]

The character Dracula is very different from his real-life progenitor Vlad Dracul, the impaler.

RPF with conptemporary people does kinda squicks me out too - to me it crosses a line that I'm not sure should be crossed. But, in truth, I don't think I could tell you why I feel that way.

[cfrizz]

Originally Posted by BeccaPrice

...RPF with conptemporary people does kinda squicks me out too - to me it crosses a line that I'm not sure should be crossed. But, in truth, I don't think I could tell you why I feel that way.

It crosses the line because people take their fantasies of what they want and impose them on real people whom you know aren't that way.

I read and have a lot of Star Trek fanfic. My favorite is Voyager fics. One of the most popular pairings is Janeway and Seven of Nine.

Now it's perfectly fine to put J/7 together, however, when someone started writing fics with Mulgrew & Ryan, that is simply unaccecptable, everyone knew that both women are straight and in relationships with men.

So when you start to allow your fantasies to encroach on real people and put it out on the web, then there will most likely be a backlash.

Do what you want with fictional characters from a tv or movie, but it really is in poor taste to do so with the actors that portray the characters.

[cfrizz]

Originally Posted by Yapyap

Considering his statement was general and all-encompassing, not bothering to differentiate between people writing fanfic for copyrighted universes where the rights holder doesn't allow it, copyrighted universes where the rights holder allows and/or encourages it, and universes in public domain, I'd say he managed to insult a LOT of people who haven't engaged in anything even remotely illegal or infringing on anyone's copyright.

And considering his statement implied that everyone who "feeds" off other people's work instead of creating their own worlds is a leech and parasite and blood-sucker, it's pretty offensive also to anyone writing legal, approved, published fanfiction in its widest sense (tie-in novels, sequels to or alternative takes on public domain works, and so on - all that is, in its essence, the same thing as fanfiction after all, just that it's done for personal gain, not (just) out of love or interest in the source material).

By that statement, people like Laurie R. King (Mary Russell novels) and Jean Rhys (Wide Sargasso Sea), never mind Seth Grahame-Smith (Pride and Prejudice and Zombies) are also nothing but leeches, parasites and blood-suckers, as they, too, "feed off" someone else's work. And let's not even get to almost the entire TV and film industry that lives on adaptations of other people's work instead of coming up with something completely original!

Excellent post! He basically insulted everyone on this board who writes and/or reads fanfic. There was simply no other way to interpret it.

There are really only a few stories to tell, and they get told in various ways over & over again. Some very good and original, and some that are not quite so good or original. Hell the last few years Hollywood can't come up with anything other than to either do movies about comic book characters or do remake on top of remake of old tv shows, movies and comic book characters!

[pshrynk]

Moderator Notice
Oh, let's get back to talking about fanfic, shall we? Harry has sent a PM apologizing and the apology has been accepted. It should be a dead topic by now.

[WritePR]

Originally Posted by pshrynk

Oh, let's get back to talking about fanfic, shall we? Harry has sent a PM apologizing and the apology has been accepted. It should be a dead topic by now.

I didn't see him apologizing for the way he insulted everyone who writes fanfic by calling them "leeches, parasites and blood suckers." He has a lot more to apologize for, IMHO.

To get back on topic, I agree that RPF is creepy and inappropriate.

[spindlegirl]

Originally Posted by WritePR

I agree that RPF is creepy and inappropriate.

I very much agree on this one.

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by WritePR

I didn't see him apologizing for the way he insulted everyone who writes fanfic by calling them "leeches, parasites and blood suckers." He has a lot more to apologize for, IMHO.

To get back on topic, I agree that RPF is creepy and inappropriate.

Harry does not need to apologize for that because he hasn't insulted any particular person but simply stated his opinion about an entire class of people engaging in activity that is often illegal.

And it's not like the MR echo chamber hasn't already come down on him with the usual dose of hostility for anyone who suggests that authors and other people who create content have actual enforceable rights.

[pshrynk]

The only RPF I've ever seen was really poorly written porn.

Not that I read porn..

[CWatkinsNash]

Originally Posted by pshrynk

The only RPF I've ever seen was really poorly written porn.

Not that I read porn..

Hey, they let you out of the lounge?

I read some RPF once, and I didn't know it until I got to the end, where there was a note from the author saying something like "hope my brother-in-law doesn't mind that I wrote him a new life" or similar.

Creepy. It wasn't anything too "steamy", but if someone did that to me... Ew.

At least with famous people, I see the desire to write them into a framework that's fantasy. It's still not okay, but I get it, you know? But someone that close? And apparently without up-front permission? Creepy. Just freakin' creepy.

[pshrynk]

Of course, I put Vivaldi in the Harv and Vera sagas... And in a Nano book I wrote a few years ago...

[khalleron]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

Harry does not need to apologize for that because he hasn't insulted any particular person but simply stated his opinion about an entire class of people engaging in activity that is often illegal.

And it's not like the MR echo chamber hasn't already come down on him with the usual dose of hostility for anyone who suggests that authors and other people who create content have actual enforceable rights.

Now you're painting with an awfully broad brush. None of the fanfic writers or enjoyers here have anything against authors. We love authors. Many of us desire to be authors ourselves (or already are).

Don't put words in our mouths - that's not anyone's stance here.

It's the idea that anyone who borrows ideas is a 'parasite' that's insulting. Everyone borrows ideas. Anyone who says they don't is a liar.

Broad insults are still insults. If I said 'Everyone who eats cheese is a parasite', individual cheese-eaters would have the right to get mad at me. Since when do insults aimed at a group not insult the individual members of that group?