The Rise of Apocalyptic and Survival Fiction

[VydorScope]

Originally Posted by Steven Lake

Yeah, that always a big issue. However, I think the biggest issue is the incredible degree of specialization modern society has. Take a look at the last major collapse, which was the fall of the Roman empire. I was reading a while back that during their height, just before the fall, they had a high degree of specialization amongst the citizenry, which actually worked against them when everything fell apart. The people who actually did best were those with broad skillsets. It also meant that, with the mass die off of those with very specialized skills, you'd have a huge loss of knowledge as well, since knowledge usually transfers better between those with broader skillsets than those with narrow ones. I think if we had another major collapse like what Rome saw, you'd also see almost the exact same thing happen a second time with large groups of people dying off because their skillsets were very specialized, and thus they were unable to survive or adapt to the complex and challenging new order to things.

Well, the one big difference I think is the literacy level and the quantity of books available. If my town were to make it, there are 1/2 fully stocked libraries plus a science museum (no to mention a major university) I can raid and I live in a smallish town (pop 60k) I expect bigger towns have even more resources like this. Even without power I can still read paper books and get what knowledge I need.

I do not recall any apoc stories off hand that put a high value on libraries though...

[Steven Lake]

Originally Posted by VydorScope

I do not recall any apoc stories off hand that put a high value on libraries though...

Eh, probably because most people wouldn't think about running to the library to find books about survival. Ironically enough, most would probably see it as the world's greatest fuel depot. In fact, they did that in one film a while back (I forget the name) where a sudden, massive shift in global climate caused the whole northern hemisphere to be blanketed in subarctic temperatures and tens of feet of snow. One of the scenes showed a tidal wave that flowed into NYC and flooded the library up to the 3rd floor before stopping, shortly after which the super cold temps froze it solid. The people who got trapped inside the library then had to find a way to stay warm, and what was the first thing they did? Yup, burned books. Oddly enough though, the first ones they burned were the tax codes. I almost felt like cheering for them when they did.

[TimW]

Originally Posted by Steven Lake

Eh, probably because most people wouldn't think about running to the library to find books about survival. Ironically enough, most would probably see it as the world's greatest fuel depot. In fact, they did that in one film a while back (I forget the name) where a sudden, massive shift in global climate caused the whole northern hemisphere to be blanketed in subarctic temperatures and tens of feet of snow. One of the scenes showed a tidal wave that flowed into NYC and flooded the library up to the 3rd floor before stopping, shortly after which the super cold temps froze it solid. The people who got trapped inside the library then had to find a way to stay warm, and what was the first thing they did? Yup, burned books. Oddly enough though, the first ones they burned were the tax codes. I almost felt like cheering for them when they did.

The infamous The Day After Tomorrow, I believe.

[Steven Lake]

Ah, yes, that's the one. I could picture the movie, but couldn't remember the name of it. Then again, that's not all that surprising. I'm rather bad with names. That's probably why my notes files are usually filled with primarily character names and info.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by VydorScope

Well, the one big difference I think is the literacy level and the quantity of books available.

The other thing to take into account is the wider dissemination of all knowledge through electronic systems. As long as you can create power--even human-powered energy--you can recall entire libraries of data with a PDA.

This could mean the most valuable people of the post-apoc could be those who can show others how to generate power, and who can fix, maintain or emulate electronic hardware. Access to knowledge allows individuals to rise above specialization, giving them more survival options.

[VydorScope]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

The other thing to take into account is the wider dissemination of all knowledge through electronic systems. As long as you can create power--even human-powered energy--you can recall entire libraries of data with a PDA.

This could mean the most valuable people of the post-apoc could be those who can show others how to generate power, and who can fix, maintain or emulate electronic hardware. Access to knowledge allows individuals to rise above specialization, giving them more survival options.

Yea, I have stated a few times in this thread that getting some power back online is key. Once you have power that opens up machinery and manufacturing. Then from there you can build better power/etc and recover.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by VydorScope

Yea, I have stated a few times in this thread that getting some power back online is key. Once you have power that opens up machinery and manufacturing. Then from there you can build better power/etc and recover.

Right... machinery, manufacturing and knowledge (and as an aside, wider communication). Knowledge and communications will speed recovery.

[Penforhire]

Charlie Stross used disks (forget if CD or DVD) of U.S. patents as a repository of advanced knowledge in his Merchant Princes series. We laugh at many silly modern patents but much of the older content is impressive, listing material formulas and process details. I'd vote to have that collection handy after the apocalypse.

[Steven Lake]

In "A Canticle for Leibowitz", Walter M. Miller, Jr. used a group of monks who focused mostly on storing "Artifacts", ie objects from the past, which they later used as a way to recover some of their lost knowledge since the books all got destroyed by angry mobs during a period called "The Simplifying". The humorous part was that those who did this huge book burning called themselves "Simpletons". But anyways, he used the monks of a Catholic monastery who went out just shortly before and during the simplification (and at times afterwards when other artifacts were found) which were then later brought out and parsed in order to recover as much lost knowledge as possible.

Ultimately though I think a lot of information would need to be relearned again, the same as what happened after the fall of the Roman Empire. Sure, you can save some knowledge via books and the like. But there's so much other information that can't be written down or recorded for posterity as it's things you can only learn by experience, on the job, or through apprenticeship. It's that "soft knowledge" that would be the first to go and the hardest to perpetuate initially until the number of available minds returned to the levels required to properly perpetuate it.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by VydorScope

Yea, I have stated a few times in this thread that getting some power back online is key. Once you have power that opens up machinery and manufacturing. Then from there you can build better power/etc and recover.

I'm not sure that enough power for large-scale manufacturing is plausible; the industrial revolution was founded on easy access to fuels we've mostly used up. (Even with a horrific decimation of the populace... the easy coal is gone. The easiest oil is deep underground or underwater. Deforestation has a long recovery time.) However, small/local manufacturing, powered by humans, animals, wind or water, is very possible, and would allow us access to a lot of the information and technology that makes our lives so much more healthy and comfortable than most of our ancestors.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

In the atomic bomb and evil aliens boom in the 50s, it was all resolved by the last page (or end credits).

There really are nuclear war novels with happy endings?

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

In an acute crisis, people are likely to pull together. Lord of the Flies was not written in stone.

No, it was just written by someone with a different take on human nature than your own.

Of course, it really depends on the crisis and the people.

[Steven Lake]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I'm not sure that enough power for large-scale manufacturing is plausible; the industrial revolution was founded on easy access to fuels we've mostly used up. (Even with a horrific decimation of the populace... the easy coal is gone. The easiest oil is deep underground or underwater. Deforestation has a long recovery time.) However, small/local manufacturing, powered by humans, animals, wind or water, is very possible, and would allow us access to a lot of the information and technology that makes our lives so much more healthy and comfortable than most of our ancestors.

Actually, your comment about water is very likely what it'll take to get things going again. Take a look at Stephen King's "The Stand". Everyone on the good side settled in Colorado or somewhere in the mountains and one of the things they did within the first two weeks of arriving home was to get the water turbines at a local hydroelectric dam restarted. After that, aside from the limited supplies (despite being in a massive city full of resources) they were able to resume some form of normalacy again. It wasn't much, but it at least allowed them to heat their homes, have lights, and also running water. The only thing he didn't touch on was if they were able to restore industry again. But given that they were in a demi-war scenario combined with a continued survival and recovery situation, I think industry was the last thing on their minds.

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

Of course, it really depends on the crisis and the people.

Exactly! That's what makes Survival Fiction so exciting. You really don't know how things are going to play out. It could be a happy ending, sad ending or something in between, and the disaster and subsequent recovery could be any of a thousand possibilities. At least that's why I enjoy reading and writing in the genre.

[WillAdams]

Originally Posted by VydorScope

I do not recall any apoc stories off hand that put a high value on libraries though...

_Ariel_ does this --- the protagonist drifts about, holing up in libraries and reading to pass the time and learn useful skills / information.

_Lucifer's Hammer_ has a character storing all his books (sprayed w/ bug killer inside plastic zip lock bags) in his septic tank.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I'm not sure that enough power for large-scale manufacturing is plausible; the industrial revolution was founded on easy access to fuels we've mostly used up...

True; OTOH, we now have knowledge about more advanced energy systems and materials they did not have at the outset of the IR, including nuclear power, photovoltaics, graphite, plastics and other alloys. In many cases, having just one plant at the outset that could construct the seed materials for other plants could get things going relatively quickly.

[Steven Lake]

One thing I don't think we've discussed much, and which periodically comes up during my research, is communication. One of the things you read about a lot on the prepper and disaster preparedness sites is the necessity for communication. This tends to range from simple radios for short range, two way communications to full blow HAM radio setups. They also include emergency and weather radios for picking up important news bulletins or weather reports. Of course, this only works with small to mid sized disasters where its possible for radios are still functional, the cell networks as well, and other such things.

In a world wide total societal and technological collapse, these would be useful for a while, but would ultimately fail after a given time, leaving the society with just old fashioned manual communication methods, and a rather primitive postal service similar to what was seen in the movie "The Postman". Of course, this assumes a disaster situation such as volcanic/nuclear winter, a major population dieoff due to disease, asteroid impact, etc where the ability to maintain and perpetuate modern communication will be nigh on impossible. Sure, it'll last a while, but as time goes on it'll break down and stop working all together. On top of that, power quickly becomes an issue in the long term, and even hand cranked generators and the like only last so long. So without reliable power, electronic communications quickly grind to a halt.

Case in point, I ran into a book that just recently was published (don't ask me the name, as I've forgotten it already) where it's 200 years post apocalypse and society has settled in to a Swartzentruber Amish style way of living. From what I understand from the story, within 20 years of the disaster all modern technology that required power had died off or been abandoned, leaving people living 1801 style lives where only the most basic, sometimes mechanical technologies survived. The rest were either abandoned or replaced with older style systems. One of the things that came back in full force usage was the postal service. From what I understood from the story, a pony rider would come into each village or town about once a week, or sometimes every two, and he'd bring a couple saddle bags full of letters, and a few packages for the locals.

What was even funnier was how big packages and shipments of goods traveled. In the post disaster time period, a Fedex/UPS style package shipment system had arisen based around a "carting/caravan" method of trade and transport. (the "carting" reference is ala Pern, fyi) That I actually thought was quite hilarious. In the book it's 200 years post disaster, and yet you can still "fedex" something from one village or country to another via wagon, or boat if it's far enough away. lol. That totally cracked me up.

In lesser disasters though, like earthquakes, fire, etc, modern communications, such as radios, cell phones, and possibly even computers, would be a huge element, not only in disaster assessment, but also recovery. But once the disaster surpasses a certain point, it ceases to be a recovery tool and becomes little more than a long distance means of correspondence with friends and family. Well, once the dust has settled and some degree of normality has returned. Until then communication over distance is rather pointless, except for the most extreme needs.