The culture of entitlement and illegal downloads

[QuantumIguana]

Life is positives and negatives.

[Ninjalawyer]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

In my view, it doesn't matter how many positives you have, if one of the negatives is "you're not being treated fairly." And if I'm not being treated fairly, there's no point to it. Don't get me wrong: I enjoy writing... a lot. But I don't like being taken advantage of, any more than I enjoy being attacked for my views, for wanting to be a writer.

If, maybe, you're okay with being treated badly, just so other people can see your words, that's obviously your prerogative. It's not mine. I'm one of over 7 billion people on this planet, and I know my words aren't so important that everybody must read them.

My words can entertain. To be entertained, all you have to do is cough up 3 bucks. If you're too tight for that, get your entertainment elsewhere. Go down the street and watch a mime.

For me, there's no fundamental difference between the past, and now. It's a different direction into the same black hole.

In the past, you likely would have reached no audience, with the low barriers to entry of the web you can now reach a global audience with relative ease. You lose some control because of the openness of the web, but it's quite likely that you've gained far more than you've lost, even if you're not aware of it.

It's unfortunate though that your work hasn't been as successful as you think it should be, but with the web your chance of success has been that much greater.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by sbroome

The key response to being treated poorly is finding ways to fight back.

At the moment, my best weapons are "patience" and "quality." But at times, I just want to retreat for a while and get a breather from constant battling. I'm there now.

[sbroome]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

At the moment, my best weapons are "patience" and "quality." But at times, I just want to retreat for a while and get a breather from constant battling. I'm there now.

There is no point in human history where artists and writers have not felt that way for one reason or another haha. The reasons are just different now. I'm sure classical musicians hated having to compose for rich people in order to succeed enough to live off their work. Now no matter what your style is, if there's an audience to reach you can reach it with analytics and targeted advertising. It's not easy and let's be honest, almost nobody is making it work without traditional methods of support (which is why the Louis CK models, etc. are great stories but don't matter for most of us), but the potential is there.

If it makes you feel better creatives aren't the only ones tired of the everything free model. What's happening to journalism (longform most notably) is just as tough. Maybe worse. People wouldn't pay to support real journalism and investigating, and it's dying now, then people wonder why their internet is a bunch of huffington post content farm tripe.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

My words can entertain. To be entertained, all you have to do is cough up 3 bucks. If you're too tight for that, get your entertainment elsewhere. Go down the street and watch a mime.

I charge £1.99, which I think is probably about the same amount? The way I see it, if they can't afford to pay that much, then they obviously need the money more than I do. But the demographic of people likely to be interested in anything I write is the long term unemployed and what's known here as "the working poor", ie people working for less money than they would get if they were unemployed. I've been both of those myself at various stages, which probably colours my views quite a lot. But wanting people not to read your stuff just seems a bit weird to me.

[Dulin's Books]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

IMO, if you think of your words as a product then that is your first problem.

We do not think of ourselves as stealing from you when we pirate your works, we are simply searching for a better understanding of the human condition. Perhaps we can find this understanding in your words, perhaps not. Only by reading can we know whether or not your words have any value, we cannot allow you to make this judgement beforehand for us. Well we could, but we would be doing ourselves a disservice I think.

no the first problem is you do not value the effort and time that has gone in to making the book(or other "product")

the second problem is you not thinking its wrong. its absolutely wrong for you take something that isnt yours. its also wrong for you to give something that isnt yours to another person. its also wrong for that person to receive it from you if they know its not yours to give.

you are not "allowing" him to make that judgement because its his work product not yours. you have no say in it. that item has value because he put time and effort into creating it. its up to him AND ONLY him to set that value should he decide to sell it. you get to make the choice whether you wish to pay that price or not. and yes that means you might pay for something that in the end you dont like. you will be better informed the next time there is a similar choice to make.

to believe that you should be allowed to consume the product and then make a decision as to whether or not and how much you should pay is absolutely ridiculous.

[sbroome]

Originally Posted by Dulin's Books

no the first problem is you do not value the effort and time that has gone in to making the book(or other "product")

...

to believe that you should be allowed to consume the product and then make a decision as to whether or not and how much you should pay is absolutely ridiculous.

And amazingly people like him are actually participating in a thread about entitlement and don't think that their way of viewing things fits the definition.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Dulin's Books

to believe that you should be allowed to consume the product and then make a decision as to whether or not and how much you should pay is absolutely ridiculous.

And a textbook case of narcissistic entitlement.
"The only rules that apply to me are the ones *I* choose."

Entitlement: Narcissists hold unreasonable expectations of particularly favorable treatment and automatic compliance because they consider themselves special. Failure to comply is considered an attack on their superiority, and the perpetrator is considered an "awkward" or "difficult" person. Defiance of their will is a narcissistic injury that can trigger narcissistic rage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism

Carry on!

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

But wanting people not to read your stuff just seems a bit weird to me.

That's because I create stories to sell. I don't want to give them away, any more than I want to mow my neighbor's lawn for nothing.

[Rhialto]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

That's because I create stories to sell. I don't want to give them away, any more than I want to mow my neighbor's lawn for nothing.

Is it that you want the money (in which case for most people there are probably more time-efficient ways of making it than by writing), or that you want the validation of people paying for your writings? I'm guessing the latter, and if so, I sympathize.

[Jobby]

"If it makes you feel better creatives aren't the only ones tired of the everything free model"

Utter bollocks. There are more creative people engaged in artistic production and dissemination than any other point in human history. There is more money spent on entertainment than at any other point in human history (despite the effects of a major economic recession).

Yet here's another bunch of people whinging that consumers are doing everything wrong and denying them what is rightfully theirs (appealing to a thoroughly outmoded and rapidly discredited business model).

If you as an artist (or a publisher) can't adapt and utilise changing market conditions (and consumer expectations) then you're a dinosaur. Those who can and do make the changed market work for them won't even notice your bones.

[Ninjalawyer]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

That's because I create stories to sell. I don't want to give them away, any more than I want to mow my neighbor's lawn for nothing.

Getting back to the thread topic (sort of), I won't read any of your books because none of them are free. That's in spite of the fact that you're only charging $2.99, some of them are in a genre I quite enjoy (scifi) and the fact that you seem to be able to string a sentence together well enough.

That might seem like an over developed sense of entitlement, but it's really just that I value the $2.99 and my time more than what I estimate the likelihood of enjoying the book to be. I'm already drowning in books that I know or believe will be good, why would I bother taking a chance on an unknown quantity like yours?

If one were free, I might download and read. And if I read the freebie, I might never pay for another one, but at least there's a chance; as it is right now, there isn't even that slim chance of me buying.

[sbroome]

Originally Posted by Ninjalawyer

Getting back to the thread topic (sort of), I won't read any of your books because none of them are free. That's in spite of the fact that you're only charging $2.99, some of them are in a genre I quite enjoy (scifi) and the fact that you seem to be able to string a sentence together well enough.

That might seem like an over developed sense of entitlement, but it's really just that I value the $2.99 and my time more than what I estimate the likelihood of enjoying the book to be. I'm already drowning in books that I know or believe will be good, why would I bother taking a chance on an unknown quantity like yours?

If one were free, I might download and read. And if I read the freebie, I might never pay for another one, but at least there's a chance; as it is right now, there isn't even that slim chance of me buying.

if you're drowning in books and it's a time issue, why would being free make you have more time to read it? Also why would anybody care about people that are too cheap to pay 3 dollars for a book?

[Jobby]

Originally Posted by sbroome

if you're drowning in books and it's a time issue, why would being free make you have more time to read it? Also why would anybody care about people that are too cheap to pay 3 dollars for a book?

Because they want people to read their work and potentially become a fan, perhaps?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Rhialto

Is it that you want the money (in which case for most people there are probably more time-efficient ways of making it than by writing), or that you want the validation of people paying for your writings? I'm guessing the latter, and if so, I sympathize.

Validation? Validation's for egotistical suckers. I know the work I do is quality work... I don't need anyone to tell me it's good.

What, has no one the conception of being paid for their work? Yes, other things can make me more money (like my day job). That doesn't mean the things I create are worthless, nor that I should give them away because they won't make me as much money as my day job.

If no one wants to pay for my books, I might as well make chairs.