The culture of entitlement and illegal downloads

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

We have more control over the "product" now than we ever had in the past.

No; we can show it to more people than we ever have in the past. That doesn't equate to control... in fact, it produces exactly the opposite.

I had more "control" over my stories when they existed on a floppy disk in my house, and nowhere else.

[Greg Anos]

Question, Steve. Would you have been better off in the "good old days" of the only way you could get anything published was going through an editor? Only if the editor thought that he could sell the work would any reader get to see it?

Which problem set is better for you .....

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

No; we can show it to more people than we ever have in the past. That doesn't equate to control... in fact, it produces exactly the opposite.

I had more "control" over my stories when they existed on a floppy disk in my house, and nowhere else.

Well, leaving it on a floppy in your house would be the ultimate control, but I was thinking of the changes that a publisher would insist on before it ever got near a reader. They could make any changes they wanted to your text, you would have no control over cover artwork or blurb, no control over pricing, or how it was marketed.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Well, leaving it on a floppy in your house would be the ultimate control, but I was thinking of the changes that a publisher would insist on before it ever got near a reader. They could make any changes they wanted to your text, you would have no control over cover artwork or blurb, no control over pricing, or how it was marketed.

You could always simply refuse to publish it their way, and cancel the contract. Keeping it to yourself is always the ultimate control. Once it's released, control is gone; a consumer can take your text, do all those things you didn't want a publisher to do, and resell it their way.

So you actually have LESS control now than you did before the web.

[anamardoll]

So... what is the problem? You seem to be saying that the ultimate control is to not publish AND that you want ultimate control. Is someone forcing you to publish?

I'm not trying to be snarky, but why do you write? Honestly, I mean that. If it's to make a living, I think you have a better chance with the state of things now than you did with the traditional publishing model of yesteryear.

If only because didn't you say your books are Star Trekky? That was a tough niche to break into, if I understand correctly -- lots of good/established/decently-famous authors happy to churn out Star Trek fic on the Star Trek dime. How would you compete?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

I'm not trying to be snarky, but why do you write?

I'm not being snarky either, when I reply: These days, I don't know why I should write. That's why I haven't written any new novels in the last year, and don't have any new projects planned.

And no, none of my books are based in the Trek universe, but one of the series is similar in flavor to Star Trek. My more popular and best-reviewed books are hard SF, nowhere near the Star Trek arena. And, of course, I have one mystery/adventure, not SF at all.

If you're interested, I'm sure you can torrent them all.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

I'm not being snarky either, when I reply: These days, I don't know why I should write. That's why I haven't written any new novels in the last year, and don't have any new projects planned.

And no, none of my books are based in the Trek universe, but one of the series is similar in flavor to Star Trek. My more popular and best-reviewed books are hard SF, nowhere near the Star Trek arena. And, of course, I have one mystery/adventure, not SF at all.

If you're interested, I'm sure you can torrent them all.

I don't know how to torrent, and I support indie authors, so if it were my thing I would buy, but it's not so I won't.

I do apologize for misunderstanding about the Star Trekiness. I get people mixed up in my head sometimes.

If you really don't have a drive to write, you shouldn't. I mean, I hate my day job, and I work it for the money, but it sounds like you think you're not making a living from your writing, so if you hate writing and you aren't being compensated at the level you need/want to be, I would recommend you stop. But of course that choice is yours.

Thanks for engaging with me so politely.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Once it's released, control is gone; a consumer can take your text, do all those things you didn't want a publisher to do, and resell it their way.

Has that ever happened? Unless the consumer was a better writer, why would anyone want their version instead?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Has that ever happened? Unless the consumer was a better writer, why would anyone want their version instead?

How would I know? That's the problem with the system we have today.

[sbroome]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

How would I know? That's the problem with the system we have today.

I understand your frustration, but it's important to look at all the positives this era offers to counter the negatives. As a developer/writer/artist I really don't think there's a better time for someone like me to create and distribute his own work. We're all still working on the monetizing part which is a PITA, but I am confident there are solutions with the micropayment options. And with the ease of accessing testers (with all your social networking contacts you should have access to almost any device) you can do what companies used to take months to do in a matter of days. Analytics give direct information that you used to pay research firms to compile for you. It's important to have a well-rounded view of things.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

In my view, it doesn't matter how many positives you have, if one of the negatives is "you're not being treated fairly." And if I'm not being treated fairly, there's no point to it. Don't get me wrong: I enjoy writing... a lot. But I don't like being taken advantage of, any more than I enjoy being attacked for my views, for wanting to be a writer.

If, maybe, you're okay with being treated badly, just so other people can see your words, that's obviously your prerogative. It's not mine. I'm one of over 7 billion people on this planet, and I know my words aren't so important that everybody must read them.

My words can entertain. To be entertained, all you have to do is cough up 3 bucks. If you're too tight for that, get your entertainment elsewhere. Go down the street and watch a mime.

For me, there's no fundamental difference between the past, and now. It's a different direction into the same black hole.

[twowheels]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Actually... yes, this is just the place for that type of discussion.

From Haley's reply to a commenter:

This.

Hrm... I drove all over Spain last summer and found that people actually drove quite slowly and cautiously compared to here in California, both in the cities and in the rural areas.

[twowheels]

don’t see Mega-Entertainment inc being fleeced of a few pennies here, I see some poor ex-kid actor or struggling screenwriter living off his residuals who ain’t going to be having Christmas next year because of people like you.

Speaking of entitlements... why is the kid entitled to residuals? The kid was paid for the original acting job, was he not? I work specifying, designing, and writing software (see, I'm writer, producer, and actor all in one!), which is used and sold for YEARS after I leave the company, yet the company owns it and gets ALL future profits. This is true of almost every industry.

[sbroome]

Originally Posted by twowheels

Speaking of entitlements... why is the kid entitled to residuals? The kid was paid for the original acting job, was he not? I work specifying, designing, and writing software (see, I'm writer, producer, and actor all in one!), which is used and sold for YEARS after I leave the company, yet the company owns it and gets ALL future profits. This is true of almost every industry.

Because that's what their unions negotiate. And it's not some kind of myth I know stuntmen and fight choreographers and smaller actors struggling with this as a reality. If you were in a union and negotiated residuals you'd get them.

[sbroome]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

In my view, it doesn't matter how many positives you have, if one of the negatives is "you're not being treated fairly." And if I'm not being treated fairly, there's no point to it. Don't get me wrong: I enjoy writing... a lot. But I don't like being taken advantage of, any more than I enjoy being attacked for my views, for wanting to be a writer.

If, maybe, you're okay with being treated badly, just so other people can see your words, that's obviously your prerogative. It's not mine. I'm one of over 7 billion people on this planet, and I know my words aren't so important that everybody must read them.

My words can entertain. To be entertained, all you have to do is cough up 3 bucks. If you're too tight for that, get your entertainment elsewhere. Go down the street and watch a mime.

For me, there's no fundamental difference between the past, and now. It's a different direction into the same black hole.

The key response to being treated poorly is finding ways to fight back. I'll admit that I don't care enough about people's opinions to harp on the "attacked for my views" thing. Who cares? Say what you think.