Overused Silly Sci-Fi Science.

[Iphinome]

Originally Posted by ScalyFreak

Which is why you hit it with an EMT nuke instead. Problem solved.

Its the only way to be sure.

[QuantumIguana]

Originally Posted by ScalyFreak

Of course. The important thing is to know when to stop. The easiest way to bore a reader is to include every single detail.

To go back to how computers work (since that is what I know), if keeping a computer up and running is vital to the plot of a novel, there is still no need to go into excruciating detail about why decorating the case with fridge magnets is bad idea.

The solution is to use the phrase "As you know, Bob..." And use it a lot.

[efindel]

A few random notes....

I'd have to go back and re-watch to see if they actually did it, but I remember J. Michael Straczynski saying on message boards long ago that their plan for handling the "no sound in space" part of space combat on B5 was to have the musical score coordinate with the battle. So, for example, instead of hearing an explosion when a ship blew up, the music would crescendo at that point.

Also on the subject of space combat, David Weber's Honor Harrington series does a great job with it. Ships turn to use their main engines to speed up and slow down, warheads are smart and guided... and their payloads are arrays of bomb-pumped lasers, getting around the "there's no medium to transmit a shock wave from an explosion" problem. Also, ECM (electronic countermeasures) to keep an enemy ship and its missiles from properly seeing you are a big part of his space combat.

[Ekaros]

The space combat I loved the solution in one novel, just pump the route of spaceship full of "cannon balls", easily made by melting metal in 0G and then launching. Kinetic weapons are cool, other one was Heinlein with throwing some rocks, quite big ones, from the moon...

I wish they would be used more often...

[Steven Lake]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

The thing about small aircraft is, they're harder to hit because of all that jockeying around in turbulent air. Remove the effect of air turbulence and introduce self-tracking weapons, and the dogfight loses its edge.

Being a pilot myself, although not licensed at this time, I disagree with this. Yes, the ride is rough up there due to turbulence, but that actually has very little effect on the way an aircraft goes. The only advantage an aircraft would have over a spacecraft is that it can use the air around it to help it turn. A spacecraft would have to use 360 degree 3 axis trust in order to make those same changes. Plus at the higher rates of speed the spacecraft could hit, it would be more practical to make your spaceship a meandering tri-directional turret than employ any kind of actual dog fighting. You have to remember, in a real air fight, you can't turn around and shoot at the guy on your 6 oclock. In space, you can.

Shields. Huge silly sci-fi trope. Capable of deflecting energy weapons fire, but incapable of capturing some of that energy to direct back at the enemy. And should be useless against a physical weapon, but somehow they manage to take out projectile fire too. Wassup with that?

The concept of a deflector shield is that it places an energy barrier around the ship that is capable of deflecting not just energy, which in the concentrations it's being fired at would also possess considerable inertia of its own, but physical matter as well. It's already been scientifically proven that you can block physical matter with an energy field just as easier, if not more so, than energy. I don't have the name of the exact study, but it's out there. Google it.

Originally Posted by dworth

How do you target a ship if the distance is such that the light delay means that the ship that you're firing at isn't where it appears to be anyway and definitely won't be there when your missiles arrive?

The same way pilots hit moving targets today. You predict where the target will be when your bullet arrives, then aim for that spot. It's called "leading the target". Anyone who's had to fire at a moving target knows about that.

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Heck, just Worf up front with a batt'leth and a few clean-up red-shirts with magnum revolvers and baseball bats would've done it.

Yeah, wondered about that myself, because Picard machine gunned that one borg to death in the holodeck. So why couldn't starfleet switch everyone to hard ammo? My only guess is that these are 24th century people and they just don't think like that anymore.

[ScalyFreak]

Originally Posted by Steven Lake

Yeah, wondered about that myself, because Picard machine gunned that one borg to death in the holodeck. So why couldn't starfleet switch everyone to hard ammo? My only guess is that these are 24th century people and they just don't think like that anymore.

Competent warriors/soldier adjust their tactics when the circumstances around them change. If they can't do that, they end up losing the war, which , if the Borg really were that superior, is the only realistic way for that plot arch to end.

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by Ekaros

The space combat I loved the solution in one novel, just pump the route of spaceship full of "cannon balls", easily made by melting metal in 0G and then launching. Kinetic weapons are cool, other one was Heinlein with throwing some rocks, quite big ones, from the moon...

I wish they would be used more often...

The Lost Fleet series use kinetic rounds "grape shot" to batter down enemy ship[s shields.

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by Steven Lake

The concept of a deflector shield is that it places an energy barrier around the ship that is capable of deflecting not just energy, which in the concentrations it's being fired at would also possess considerable inertia of its own, but physical matter as well. It's already been scientifically proven that you can block physical matter with an energy field just as easier, if not more so, than energy. I don't have the name of the exact study, but it's out there. Google it.

In Mote in Gods eye, by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, an Imperial warship's Langston field (Black globe generators in the RPG Traveller) would keep absorbing energy from torpedoes and energy weapons, shunting that energy to capacitors which in turn feed power to the shields. Once those capacitors overloaded, burn throughs or catastrophic energy discharges would take place.

The shield would flicker, allowing return fire.

[dworth]

"The same way pilots hit moving targets today. You predict where the target will be when your bullet arrives, then aim for that spot. It's called "leading the target". Anyone who's had to fire at a moving target knows about that."

Not a pilot myself, but I'm aware of this method (I blame too many computer games ). Although the problem would be more difficult to over come (at least if you're dogfighting in a plane you can actually see where the enemy plane is at the moment you press the trigger) some sort of computerised targeting system would no doubt be able to predict the likely position of the target based on its known speed, heading and range.

But what if the time lag is longer, say minutes, hours or days, during which time the location and heading of the target could drastically change? Distances in space are h-u-g-e. Even if your weapons travel to the target at the speed of light they could still take hours to reach it even if you're just trying to hit something in the same star system. If the target isn't moving in a predictable manner it would be near impossible to hit without some sort of independent ability to home in and overcome any defences the target might have, and then of course you have problem of packing the engines and fuel into a weapon and making it fast enough to arrive at the target quickly enough and with enough speed, manouevrability and machine based cunning to correct its course, evade defences and hit the target.

Over greater distances it could become ridiculous. Imagine trying to shoot down a plane by trying to predict where it might be next Thursday.

Hmm, all this is getting my creative juices flowing. Fun!

[andyh2000]

Originally Posted by dworth

But what if the time lag is longer, say minutes, hours or days, during which time the location and heading of the target could drastically change? Distances in space are h-u-g-e. Even if your weapons travel to the target at the speed of light they could still take hours to reach it even if you're just trying to hit something in the same star system. If the target isn't moving in a predictable manner it would be near impossible to hit without some sort of independent ability to home in and overcome any defences the target might have, and then of course you have problem of packing the engines and fuel into a weapon and making it fast enough to arrive at the target quickly enough and with enough speed, manouevrability and machine based cunning to correct its course, evade defences and hit the target.

Over greater distances it could become ridiculous. Imagine trying to shoot down a plane by trying to predict where it might be next Thursday.

C J Cherryh wrote about this sort of space combat in her SF novels (Heavy Time, Hellburner, Downbelow Station etc.) Your longscan starts off showing the enemy way over the other side of a solar system and you plot your tactics accordingly, but they jumped in-system at near the speed of light so before you know it they're on top of you raking you with laser fire. It's one of the best depictions of space battle I've ever read. That and the climactic battle in Footfall.

Andrew

[teh603]

Originally Posted by Steven Lake

Yeah, wondered about that myself, because Picard machine gunned that one borg to death in the holodeck. So why couldn't starfleet switch everyone to hard ammo? My only guess is that these are 24th century people and they just don't think like that anymore.

Well, because firearms and explosives have too high a chance of rupturing the hull. Never mind that the anti-decompression deflector shields ought to be able to re-seal it before any meaningful damage is done, considering they can trap someone in a six foot diameter bubble if the ship can be tricked into thinking they're on fire.

Originally Posted by andyh2000

C J Cherryh wrote about this sort of space combat in her SF novels (Heavy Time, Hellburner, Downbelow Station etc.) Your longscan starts off showing the enemy way over the other side of a solar system and you plot your tactics accordingly, but they jumped in-system at near the speed of light so before you know it they're on top of you raking you with laser fire. It's one of the best depictions of space battle I've ever read. That and the climactic battle in Footfall.

Depends on how your FTL systems work; if you have one based on wormholes or folded space then you might get only five minutes' warning before they're monkeystomping you.

[Penforhire]

I like one SF plot solution to extreme-range combat that says you can't sustain relativistic drives in deep gravity wells (solar systems). Combatants have to drop out/in of "warp" at significant distances from a planet. You can conventionally accelerate to relativistic speeds but your ship has little use in a battle as it flashes by a given target at some fraction of c and takes a year to slow down.

Of course, a related SF trope that bothers me is how ships drop out of "warp" at solar systems with nearly zero relative speed. Seems like there would be enough different system velocities (speed and direction) out there to make that absurd.

[VydorScope]

As I recall there was several times they went hand to hand with the borg, and the bord had superior strength /etc and won those fights. I also recall Seven of Nine describing in detail how to kill a Kilon in hand to hand combat. So not so sure it be as easy as y'all think.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Penforhire

Of course, a related SF trope that bothers me is how ships drop out of "warp" at solar systems with nearly zero relative speed. Seems like there would be enough different system velocities (speed and direction) out there to make that absurd.

Well, since warp drive is in itself absurd, and usually handled in stories as if it's just a fancy overdrive, pretty much anything goes when "dropping out of light speed." I've seen Jack McDevitt handle it a bit more realistically, but that's like saying bringing a car to a stop after doing hypersonic speeds is more realistic...

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by teh603

Well, because firearms and explosives have too high a chance of rupturing the hull. Never mind that the anti-decompression deflector shields ought to be able to re-seal it before any meaningful damage is done, considering they can trap someone in a six foot diameter bubble if the ship can be tricked into thinking they're on fire.

Babylon 5 handled this aspect well. Earthforce adopted PPG's (Phased Plasma Guns) sidearms and longarms for use in shipboard combat, because they have little or no penetration against hull

Originally Posted by teh603

Depends on how your FTL systems work; if you have one based on wormholes or folded space then you might get only five minutes' warning before they're monkeystomping you.

I like the idea of such wormhole entry/exits or foldspace locations being to be sufficiently distant from a gravity well for safe operations. Military grade drives might be able to jump closer than a civilian grade drive equipped ship. If that was the case a ship would still need to use normal space drives to enter the star system proper/or engage in combat.

In regards to reversion to normal space from jumpspace, exiting to normal space at the same relative velocity a ship entered jumpspace would make sense.