Overused Silly Sci-Fi Science.

[dworth]

I suspect that real space battles, were they ever to occur, could take place at extremely longe ranges, something that brings with it a whole raft of problems. How do you hit a moving target at ranges of millions of kilometres? How do you target a ship if the distance is such that the light delay means that the ship that you're firing at isn't where it appears to be anyway and definitely won't be there when your missiles arrive? How do you stop it shooting down your projectiles when it has hours or even days to intercept them or move out of the way? If you aren't using projectiles, how do you create a powerful enough beam weapon capable of delivering enough hitting power over those distances?

[scampos]

One thing that bothers me a lot is how they do not connect the pieces, such as thinking about how your science connects to military action. One way of attacking a ship would be to bomb the enemy ship with big nukes, which would weaken the shields. Once they are weak enough, or down, transport a bigger nuke inside the ship.

No, I did not think of that by myself, in the german series Perry Rhodan, that's how they attack big enemy ships. Since in that universe transport is not so efficient as in Star Trek, they teletransport the nukes to as close to the enemy shield as possible. Stargate Atlantis also did something like that.

While reading these stories we often think, why they don't use X ? The reason, is of course, because it would end the story at this point. Conclusion, usually not a good enough story to start with.

[ScalyFreak]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Heck, just Worf up front with a batt'leth and a few clean-up red-shirts with magnum revolvers and baseball bats would've done it.

Exactly my point! Which is what makes the Borg lame. It's so obvious they're trying way too hard to make them invincible.

[sabredog]

The Lost Fleet series by Jack Campbell (John Hemry) tackles starship combat very well.

[altworld]

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

One thought that I have on the science in science fiction is that you should depart from the science when you must in order to tell the story, but you should understand that you are departing from science. That means you should know the science - not necessarily the latest bleeding edge science, but the really basic stuff.

Too often, they depart from science not because the story requires it, but because they don't understand what the science is. Often, including the real science would have given a better story.

I have to say this, real characters will give you the better story not science...

[VydorScope]

Originally Posted by altworld

I have to say this, real characters will give you the better story not science...

This.

I do my best to keep all my science with in the realm of reasonable, but first a story and characters have to work well, or you just have a text book.

[Freeshadow]

Originally Posted by dworth

I suspect that real space battles, were they ever to occur, could take place at extremely longe ranges, something that brings with it a whole raft of problems. How do you hit a moving target at ranges of millions of kilometres? How do you target a ship if the distance is such that the light delay means that the ship that you're firing at isn't where it appears to be anyway and definitely won't be there when your missiles arrive? How do you stop it shooting down your projectiles when it has hours or even days to intercept them or move out of the way? If you aren't using projectiles, how do you create a powerful enough beam weapon capable of delivering enough hitting power over those distances?

You so much want to read the looking glass series.
Check http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/1...wsThatCatchCD/

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by dworth

I suspect that real space battles, were they ever to occur, could take place at extremely longe ranges, something that brings with it a whole raft of problems. How do you hit a moving target at ranges of millions of kilometres? How do you target a ship if the distance is such that the light delay means that the ship that you're firing at isn't where it appears to be anyway and definitely won't be there when your missiles arrive? How do you stop it shooting down your projectiles when it has hours or even days to intercept them or move out of the way? If you aren't using projectiles, how do you create a powerful enough beam weapon capable of delivering enough hitting power over those distances?

Answer: Independently-maneuverable self-guiding missiles for long-range combat. Short-range combat shouldn't even involve manned vehicles: Drones should be semi-autonomously piloted (mainly to keep from getting hit) while remote controllers use them as weapons platforms for short-range fire and defense.

Of course, that takes all the fun and excitement out of battle, so you're not likely to see much of that, especially on-screen...

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

One thought that I have on the science in science fiction is that you should depart from the science when you must in order to tell the story, but you should understand that you are departing from science. That means you should know the science - not necessarily the latest bleeding edge science, but the really basic stuff.

Too often, they depart from science not because the story requires it, but because they don't understand what the science is. Often, including the real science would have given a better story.

Often, the real science would have completely quashed the story. Sometimes, when you are faced with that dilemma, the answer might be to rewrite the story in another setting altogether... or kill the story.

(Take note, SYFY.)

[dworth]

" Drones should be semi-autonomously piloted (mainly to keep from getting hit)"

They'd need to be completely autonomous at long range. The distance would induce a delay between signals being sent and recieved to and from the drone and its controlling vehicle making direct human control impractical. You'd also need some sort of power plant and fuel source that would allow the drone to manoeuvre sufficiently to intercept the target and evade defensive fire over long periods, without increasing its mass too much.

IIRC the battles in the Night's Dawn Trilogy by Peter F. Hamilton work this way. Ships loosing off hundreds of tiny drone missiles each tasked to different roles (ship killer, drone killer, ECM and so on) the winner's ship killing drones finally getting through and killing their opponent.

[VydorScope]

I dont agree that future combat will all be at extreme range. I think just as in modern day troop movements you see some long range action (cruise missiles, drones, etc) and some short range (infantry, choppers, etc). I suspect that model will hold out.

I do see large fleets, simular to modern day carrier fleets, being the primary military force due to the massive amount (even at 100's of times C) time they will spend moving from combat zone to combat zone. They will need a full support fleet, medical, manufacturing, etc.

Just my opinion.

[ScalyFreak]

Originally Posted by VydorScope

I do see large fleets, simular to modern day carrier fleets, being the primary military force due to the massive amount (even at 100's of times C) time they will spend moving from combat zone to combat zone. They will need a full support fleet, medical, manufacturing, etc.

Guerilla warfare going the way of the betamax?

[VydorScope]

Originally Posted by ScalyFreak

Guerilla warfare going the way of the betamax?

Not completely. I can see that in interplanetary battles for sure. But it would be much harder for smaller fleets and individual gun boats to operate when there is potentially years of travel between support bases.

Just my prediction, and its highly unlikely anyone in this thread will live long enough to prove me right or wrong.

[Gus Flory]

When I was a kid, it bugged me when Han Solo started walking around inside an asteroid with only a hospital oxygen mask.

I still had a Stars Wars bedspread and matching curtains, though.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by dworth

IIRC the battles in the Night's Dawn Trilogy by Peter F. Hamilton work this way. Ships loosing off hundreds of tiny drone missiles each tasked to different roles (ship killer, drone killer, ECM and so on) the winner's ship killing drones finally getting through and killing their opponent.

Yup... that sounds like the way to do it to me.

(Considering how much SF involves space warfare, it's no wonder that we've spent so much time debating the one subject.)

Another silly idea: Humanoid robots with outside-accessible off switches (Data, C3PO, etc). Shouldn't they, at least, be difficult to find or activate? Who needs a robot that can be easily turned off, by accident or on purpose, in a tight situation? The whole "this thing is deadly, but if you can hit it just here, that will shut it off" trope is insanely stoopid.