Advertisements in Ebooks-Good Idea?

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

No, there have been plenty of substantive reasons put forth by "ad-haters" about why this wouldn't work.

A lot of the discussion, as mentioned above, has been quite concrete. Feel free to offer your own concrete examples, preferably with numbers.

Well, as I've said from the beginning, I 'm not a marketing person, so I feel hesitant to come up with any models. I do know that apparently Amazon has filed a patent for advertisements in ebooks, LINK

and no doubt Google or Apple have their own people working on the concept , so I think we will see something emerge fairly soon.

You have consistiently argued that ebook ads would exactly like either print ads or website ads, and have said that those models won't work. Frankly, I agree with you.
I have proposed that the model that would most likely work is an extension of the KSO model. You apparently did not click through to the thread I referenced, because if you did, you would see, not people who despise the Special Offer ads and who have to be coaxed or browbeaten into viewing those offers, but people who welcome their Special Offers.
Now the beauty of the Special Offers approach is that the true believers in ad-free books (hereinafter the TBIAFBs)in effect select themselves out of the pool to be marketed to by buying the full price, ad-free books. The people who buy the ad-supported versions (the Kindle Edition Special Offers or KESOs) WANT to see the Special Offers. They therefore maybe OK with the kind of intrusive ads abhorred by the TBIAFBs. They also will have no problem with Amazon using their browsing or purchasing history to tailor ads to them.
Elfwreck proclaimed loudly that if three pages of ads are put in the front of an ebook, the readers will surely ignore the ads, but since the folks buying the KESOS want to see what bargains may be in store for them, Amazon may feel confident that KESO buyers may look at their ads.
What would the model look like in practice ? Gotta go back to work. Get back at you later.

[BearMountainBooks]

One thing this discussion hasn't addressed is that a lot of free books don't get read. (Being a part of an author group who sells books at a low price, I often discuss prices and freebies with other authors. Take it for what it is worth.)

Free books might be downloaded by the thousands, but it doesn't seem to result in more reviews or readers in many cases. So how will the ads work? Do they have to be clicked on to pay out? If that is the case, there's less incentive for authors/publishers to make the books free.

I am one of those who will download "Maybe I'll read" books if they are free. But I tend to read only a very few. That means if they are ad supported, I'd never see the ads on most of the freebies. This degrades the whole ad model.

One of the reasons I don't make my books free is I actually think less people would read them after downloading. (That's only one reason. The other is largely because I'm trying to make a living and until Toyota offers me that placement ad, there seems little point in giving my books away as "free" does nothing to put food on the table.)

Other authors swear that giving away the first in a series has gained them a large following. I do agree, that it seems to work for some authors--or did before the plethora of free titles that constantly stream past. I'm not sure if it has worked lately.

[MovieBird]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Coming from a guy who told me that I wasn't welcome on this site because of my opinions, that's pretty rich.

Wait a minute, where did I ever tell you you're not welcome here because of your opinions? You mean here?

Originally Posted by MovieBird

Maybe you should take that as a hint that you're not welcome around here.

Originally Posted by MovieBird

Hey, if he's inspired three threads to be closed because of his posts, maybe the island is trying to tell him something.

Where do I mention your opinions there? You tried to play the victim card, all the evil [add stonetools naming convention here] are beating up on poor little you. I suggested that if your posts (not opinions, possibly style?) have directly led to three threads being closed, as you self reported, then you should look for somewhere else to post.

No, I've not been extra nice to you. But I've also never name-called, insulted, or belittled you in any fashion. Something you seem to do in every single post to nebulous groups who don't agree with your view of the world.

Most posters seem to disagree vehemently with Giggleton, yet he doesn't incite others to engage in turf warfare the way your posts do. Maybe that's something to think about.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by sabredog

Do you want to know why readers are opposed to ads in ebooks? Readers of novels want to be immersed in the story line and not interrupted by a bloody ad for a packet of Doritos. It might work for a magazine which consists of articles, but not a novel.

And yet there are people who like this:
http://www.eariee.com/
It's not really possible to get immersed in a story when it becomes available page by page, but people still choose to read it.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

And yet there are people who like this:
http://www.eariee.com/
It's not really possible to get immersed in a story when it becomes available page by page, but people still choose to read it.

Could I buy this as a complete novel? This does not feel like a novel to me...I would not be bothered by ads on a serialized free web-based story.

[stonetools]

One of the reasons I don't make my books free is I actually think less people would read them after downloading. (That's only one reason. The other is largely because I'm trying to make a living and until Toyota offers me that placement ad, there seems little point in giving my books away as "free" does nothing to put food on the table.)

One of the things I'm arguing is that you should have the OPTION , ( should the company offer it) to have a version of your book supported by such an ad. Some of the folks seem to be saying you shouldn't have that option-at all.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

How much did book prices increase in the last decade, without ads being involved?

According to my unscientific calculations MMPBs have not increased over the last 30 years when adjusted for inflation.

Books are undervalued and should cost more than they do.

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...ight=inflation

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by Fbone

According to my unscientific calculations MMPBs have not increased over the last 30 years when adjusted for inflation.

Books are undervalued and should cost more than they do.

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...ight=inflation

I don't think that they are undervalued in price - more that the price reflects the most the pub/seller can sell a book for. Reading isn't the way most people get their information now.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

Could I buy this as a complete novel? This does not feel like a novel to me...I would not be bothered by ads on a serialized free web-based story.

As far as I know it's not finished yet. It works the way that webcomics do: free, with ads, and with the readers getting the story piece by piece.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

I don't think that they are undervalued in price - more that the price reflects the most the pub/seller can sell a book for. Reading isn't the way most people get their information now.

Actually that's only new prices. When books started edging above 5 dollars for mass market years ago, I started making trips to used book stores even though it was out of my way. When they got to 7 and now 8 and Amazon has almost every book available used...it's often a no-brainer. Although even used prices are up from a few years ago, especially with shipping taken into account.

Publishers have to compete with used prices and libraries. This keeps prices and profit somewhat artificially constrained.

One of the things that makes ebooks so attractive is the bargain bins (for me.)

Stonetools, I'm not sure anyone is saying authors shouldn't be allowed to do ad placement; I think they are saying they would refuse to buy such books. I'm not really sure anyone *could* stop a publisher or author from doing ad placement if they worked the deal. It's not like it's illegal.

It's been an interesting discussion. I'm actually surprised at the number of people who don't seem to mind ads.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by Fbone

According to my unscientific calculations MMPBs have not increased over the last 30 years when adjusted for inflation.

Books are undervalued and should cost more than they do.

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...ight=inflation

Yes, and the prices went higher than inflation would have carried them. That would make them overvalued.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

It's been an interesting discussion. I'm actually surprised at the number of people who don't seem to mind ads.

It depends on the ads. The ones that are noisy are bad, the ones that are flashing are bad. But on most websites it seems like people have figured out what ads the shouldn't show.

[DustyDisks]

Ads in a book are just as useful as screen doors in submarines. Sometimes it is hard enough to get immersed and the imagination engaged even without distractions.

IMHO!

[Freeshadow]

Originally Posted by stonetools

I think the ad haters have two problems. I think they really do seem to think the new ebook ads will be just print ads in a different form

Nope I bet they'll be by magnitudes more annoying, we all see what happened with the web and TV don't we?

as if fresh ads can't be downloaded every day or ads can't be tailored to the viewer's profile.

If the reader was smart enough to buy a device that gives its seller no ability to twerk the content (*cough* 1984? Amazon and you are screwed err I mean done of course) there is no nasty spying ehm tailoring to the profile.

Originally Posted by sabredog

What a load of crock

I have not had to put up with ads in paperback novels for FORTY years and I am not going to put up with them in ebooks I buy now or in the future.

replace that 40 with all my life and you have me too

Originally Posted by sabredog

Do you want to know why readers are opposed to ads in ebooks? Readers of novels want to be immersed in the story line and not interrupted by a bloody ad for a packet of Doritos. It might work for a magazine which consists of articles, but not a novel.

if he were a reader he'd know that, but I suppose he isn't allowed to read while work hours

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

characterizing people who disagree with you as "ad-haters"

and thieves, don't forget that we all are potential criminals and filesharers

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

or people who agree with you as "wise authors" or "wise businessmen" shows...

Even if it doesn't clearly show it hints a lot, doesn't it?
AFAIR the anglophonic variant of the proverb I have in mind now was "Who pays the piper calls the tune."

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by stonetools

One of the things I'm arguing is that you should have the OPTION , ( should the company offer it) to have a version of your book supported by such an ad. Some of the folks seem to be saying you shouldn't have that option-at all.

And more people are saying that it doesn't matter what options people "should" have; ads in ebooks are not economically viable, because the level of advertising that would get returns to justify their price, would require a nuisance level that would kill the product in the open market.

Geocities went under because "pay per click" ads were not a long-term viable way to support the costs of webhosting.

Most people don't mind unobtrusive text ads... but the reason they don't mind them is that they don't *notice* them. No notice = no purchase = no return on the ad price investment.

You've still not mention how many ads it would take to get the $1-3 per ebook purchase that the advertiser would be paying for. This is not like paying for web hosting, in which the "cost per use" is effectively zero. When asked for effective similar examples, you point to a dying industry: the serialized novels of the pulps.

Saying "I don't work in marketing, but I'm sure the people who do can do it" is meaningless--or rather, is no more accurate than the people who say "no, it can't be done." Your opinion that it can't is not founded on anything other than your wish for it to be true.

My claim that it can't, is founded on number-crunching and a connection to cost-per-unit service industries. I can believe some marketing firm will *attempt* ads in ebooks, and announce a tremendous success... right up to the moment they file for bankruptcy or otherwise vanish.