If you where to buy a new phone...

[Bilbo1967]

Originally Posted by DMB

On what do you base this statement? I could afford one and have never wanted one.

I could afford one and don't want one either. His statement is demonstrably untrue.

[CWatkinsNash]

Originally Posted by Ravensknight

I'm looking for a cheap pay as you go phone that can sync/whatever with excell and word docs, so I can perform my job better.

So I'm not sure what I'd get...

I don't know where you're located, but iWireless recently added smartphones and data packages to their offerings. They are on the Sprint network, so coverage depends on Sprint service in your area.

https://www.iwirelesshome.com

I used to use them and I never had a problem. I only left because I finally hit the tipping point where it became more cost effective to switch to a contract plan with another carrier. You can go pre-paid or monthly, and your number will be portable if you change carriers later. The phone will cost more, of course, because it's not subsidized by a contract.

[The Terminator]

Originally Posted by rollercoaster

Everyone wants an iPhone if they have the money to get it, it has class, it is a status symbol. it is worth the money. Unfortunately, It also carries a lot of 'Apple' (Modified).

I really disagree with you, I would way rather Android over Iphone.

[wvcherrybomb]

Originally Posted by rollercoaster

Everyone wants an iPhone if they have the money to get it, it has class, it is a status symbol.

Oh please!!!!! Not only do I not want an iPhone, but I don't consider them a status symbol by any standards. It's a freakin' PHONE, not a fancy house or car. Besides, I think most people can afford one if they wanted one.

My vote: Android

[OtterBooks]

Originally Posted by rollercoaster

Everyone wants an iPhone if they have the money to get it, it has class, it is a status symbol. it is worth the money.

It's the same price as every other new phone. Any hillbilly with $199 can get one. It's no status symbol.

[rollercoaster]

ok ok people. dont hang me by my words..

In this context 'Everyone' meant 'most people', like it does every most of the time. And I base all that on my own experience.

Most of you advocating Android, I agree by the way, are actually 'power users' and are aware of the 'open source advantage' and the 'apple bullshit' I mentioned earlier. But if you go stand in a smartphone store that sells accessories for all types of phones then you will see a pattern emerge.

You have no idea how empowered a non tech user feels when there is only one button on a phone, it negates the very idea of 'what if I press the wrong button?/which button do I press?'! Try handing the iPhone 4 and the Samsung Galaxy S2 to your grandma(any non tech person, who by they way number more then the power users) and see which one she likes. For an average user an iPhone looks like the best choice because it provides a much more managed and smooth user experience. Android 4.0 is mainly targeted at a better user experience to combat this very area.

Also, I am an Indian and Apple is most definitely a status symbol here as it was a couple of years ago in the US/UK. And as it is worldwide when the newest model is released.

I am a developer on the web and mobile platforms so I do believe I know slight(just slightly) more then the average Joe. Please dont hang me.

I stand by my assessment. But please understand that that assessment is based on a very small 'data sample' and no scientific methods whatsoever. It is just my opinion.

sorry for not replying to individual comments.

[rollercoaster]

Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors

Android has some really amazing apps, first off - and tons of them are free. Second, battery life depends on the model - the Incredible 2 is pushing 36 hours with regular use, which is well above average for a smartphone.

And finally, I have never understood what's so bad about "fragmentation." Fragmentation is part of what's awesome about open source. You have choices.

I think you misunderstood me. I did not mean the battery life but the life of a phone itself, which is affected due to android market(not the app market) fragmentation.

The birth of a droid goes like so:
1. Android OS dev community churns out new features that have new hardware needs.
2. This vanilla OS is then passed on to phone manufacturers who repack it with their own UI, features and branding. They also take the OS to the butcher table to fit it in the various kind of models they make.
3. These phones are then passed on to cellular carriers who again modify the manufacturer's OS and apply their own UI, features(more like feature restrictions) and branding.
4. Finally the user can buy the device and is very happy. Fragmentation is awesome till here.
5. The inevitable happens, the android dev community churns out a new version. This is where the pain starts. The vanilla OS is not usable by the average user, unless they are power users and have rooted their devices and are ready to debrand their device.
6. The new version then has to pass thru the drawing board of the manufacturer, who tailors it to fit the specific models and then it has to pass thru the cellular carrier's drawing board. This process takes a extremely long time. The manufacturer as well as the cellular carrier are both not very good or very fast at it and they dont like to spend money on it.
7. In the end, the user gets the update very late and doesnt like it. In addition it dawns on the user that very soon the manufacturer and the cellular carrier will stop churning out updates for their specific model. They are profit oriented corps after all. So a droid starts dying as soon as it is born.

An example: my HTC Desire. The latest HTC gave us is v2.3 on June 2011, It took HTC 6 months to churn out the update, vanilla release was on December 2010. HTC also stops supporting the device at that time.. This update is however not recommended for most users and wipes the phone, so officially it is stuck at v2.2 (the original version only). The hardware in the phone is however capable of running Android v4.0 which is the newest. But to get that on my device, I need to be a power user, root it, loose HTC Sense, wait for the community to port the OS to this device (which is very unlikely).

How old is this phone? Born on February 16, 2010 and died June 2011. 16 months. R.I.P.
How many major updates it received: 1 (v2.1 to v2.2).
HTC Desire akin to HTC Sensation at the moment. i.e a top of the line phone.

Google is working hard on trying to remove the manufacturer and the cellular provider from the OS-to-user pipeline. Experts call it one of the reasons for Google's takeover of Motorola. But alas I dont think it can be fixed. It is the nature of the beast.

There are many other aspects of market fragmentation. The second main one has to do with apps and their quality. An app developer is constrained by the lowest common denominator when developing an app or the app wont function on all devices. The dev also has to handle a variety of screen sizes, performances issues and individual quirks. Never mind the need for the dev to own a number of devices(most droid devs dont have that much money!) to test the app and the extra work hours needed to have the app perform 'ok' on all devices. So due to this fragmentation the life of a droid dev becomes unnecessarily harder and is only worsened by super fast OS updates, new hardware etc.

The result is a low quality app because the hands of the dev were tied behind their back!

Just for a comparison, see the iOS(apple mobile device OS) development. Apple guaranteeing that an OS update will work on all but the oldest models. There is a strict standard that the devs can rely on. There are high quality development tools available. The dev does not need to buy a bunch of devices to test the apps. The dev gets support from Apple. For all that they have to give up control and a larger profit share to Apple. It hurts but seems like the lesser of two evils.

Take my word for it. It is bad. or you can confirm by (re)searching online.

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Originally Posted by rollercoaster

ok ok people. dont hang me by my words..

In this context 'Everyone' meant 'most people', like it does every most of the time. And I base all that on my own experience.

Most of you advocating Android, I agree by the way, are actually 'power users' and are aware of the 'open source advantage' and the 'apple bullshit' I mentioned earlier. But if you go stand in a smartphone store that sells accessories for all types of phones then you will see a pattern emerge.

You have no idea how empowered a non tech user feels when there is only one button on a phone, it negates the very idea of 'what if I press the wrong button?/which button do I press?'! Try handing the iPhone 4 and the Samsung Galaxy S2 to your grandma(any non tech person, who by they way number more then the power users) and see which one she likes. For an average user an iPhone looks like the best choice because it provides a much more managed and smooth user experience. Android 4.0 is mainly targeted at a better user experience to combat this very area.

Also, I am an Indian and Apple is most definitely a status symbol here as it was a couple of years ago in the US/UK. And as it is worldwide when the newest model is released.

I am a developer on the web and mobile platforms so I do believe I know slight(just slightly) more then the average Joe. Please dont hang me.

I stand by my assessment. But please understand that that assessment is based on a very small 'data sample' and no scientific methods whatsoever. It is just my opinion.

sorry for not replying to individual comments.

I think you'd even struggle to make *that* argument. Android is still holding more of the marketshare. And some of the most popular Android phones cost as much, and somtimes more, than the iPhone. It's certainly not a money issue. If I hadn't gotten my Android phone refurb, it would have cost $100 more than an iPhone. It was fairly cutting edge at the time.

You seem to be under a false impression of who uses Android, here. I'm not a power user at all. And you don't have to even know what open source is to appreciate the advantage.

What do you like better, Android standard, or Android HTC?

The simple fact that I can ask that question, and anyone who's ever goofed off in a Verizon store can give me an answer, that is the advantage of open source (or one of them, at least). You could be as tech-phobic as a caveman and answer that question.

To make a similar point, you're right, there's probably more power-users on Android than on iPhone. But there's also a lot of not-very techy people.

Advantage #2: it only has to be as complicated as you want it to be. You act as though it's difficult to identify the purpose of an app labeled "Google Maps," or as though rooting is an unavoidable reality of Android. That is simply not true.

Seriously, a house, "menu," a back arrow, and a magnifying glass are confusing? What else can those things mean besides what they say?

I run Linux Mint on my computer. It's a friendly Linux.

I can use it as-is and never look at the terminal for the rest of my life if I want.

Or I can go geek crazy and change everything.

I have that choice. It is not hard to avoid the geek stuff. It's not as though it's an inevitably reality of Linux Mint. I can simply ignore it. I don't need it to do anything the OS is designed to do - which is everything.

Android offers you a similar choice. Although it's not quite as easy to access "the geek side" as it is in Linux.

iPhone forces you into dummy mode. And personally, I find Apple products less intuitive. And I used them all the way through school. In fact, it was using them that made me hate them.

It's not that I'm especially geeky. It's just that I'm an individual. And as an individual, things that make sense to me will be slightly different than you, or the next guy over. If something seems stupid to me, I can tweak that in Android, if I really want to - and it's not like it's hard - most of this stuff is as easy as launching an app.

There's nothing I can do about that in the iPhone. You're forced into one mode of functioning that is not going to work for a substantial number of people. Thus Apple's limited market share. The fact is they will never take over the market, and this is why.

Android is not "too difficult." That's just more "Apple bullshit," as you put it.

I find Apple more difficult. This may be partly because I am used to being able to do what I like, not what someone else tells me I can do. Even simple stuff like personal settings is hamstrung in Apple products. I think they're terrible to use.

I guess if you're the sort of person to care about "status symbols." But again... I don't know what kind of mature adult would take someone like that seriously.

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Originally Posted by rollercoaster

I think you misunderstood me. I did not mean the battery life but the life of a phone itself, which is affected due to android market(not the app market) fragmentation.

The birth of a droid goes like so:

There are many other aspects of market fragmentation. The second main one has to do with apps and their quality. An app developer is constrained by the lowest common denominator when developing an app or the app wont function on all devices. The dev also has to handle a variety of screen sizes, performances issues and individual quirks. Never mind the need for the dev to own a number of devices(most droid devs dont have that much money!) to test the app and the extra work hours needed to have the app perform 'ok' on all devices. So due to this fragmentation the life of a droid dev becomes unnecessarily harder and is only worsened by super fast OS updates, new hardware etc.

The result is a low quality app because the hands of the dev were tied behind their back!

Just for a comparison, see the iOS(apple mobile device OS) development. Apple guaranteeing that an OS update will work on all but the oldest models. There is a strict standard that the devs can rely on. There are high quality development tools available. The dev does not need to buy a bunch of devices to test the apps. The dev gets support from Apple. For all that they have to give up control and a larger profit share to Apple. It hurts but seems like the lesser of two evils.

Take my word for it. It is bad. or you can confirm by (re)searching online.

I don't get this. I am fairly sure your average user doesn't change OS's on something like a phone. I know I don't - still running 2.2 with HTC Sense, like the day I bought it, almost a year ago. Maybe uber-geeks do, but uber-geeks like breaking stuff as much as making it work.

For any given need, there are tons of apps. Devs don't *have* to make it work on everything, or "the lowest common denominator." I have free games that I am quite sure would never run on a lower-spec phone, of which there are plenty. Does that mean they simply didn't make it? Of course not.

A bustling dev community means there is something for everyone. You wanna make an app that only runs on the best of the best? Ok. There's someone out there making an app for the same purpose that runs on the worst of the worst. It doesn't matter.

All of that Apple support (which really isn't that fantastic - seriously, do you guys read the news?) comes at the cost of strict limits on usability which don't suit the majority of users - which is why Apple will never own any market. They are unresponsive to their users, they're overpriced, disrespectful towards the people who contribute to their platforms, and it's hard to see that as a lesser of two evils when talking about something like communications - something which is inherently diverse.

Lol, trust you? Are you some sort of authority? I'm an Android owner - I don't need to take your word for what it's like to use Android - and I'm well-acquainted with Apple products. I had the misfortune of having to use them for several years.

[rollercoaster]

I have edited my above posts while you were quoting it.


An example: my HTC Desire. The latest HTC gave us is v2.3 on June 2011, It took HTC 6 months to churn out the update, vanilla release was on December 2010. HTC also stops supporting the device at that time.. This update is however not recommended for most users and wipes the phone, so officially it is stuck at v2.2 (the original version only). The hardware in the phone is however capable of running Android v4.0 which is the newest. But to get that on my device, I need to be a power user, root it, loose HTC Sense, wait for the community to port the OS to this device (which is very unlikely).

How old is this phone? Born on February 16, 2010 and died June 2011. 16 months. R.I.P.
How many major updates it received: 1 (v2.1 to v2.2).
HTC Desire akin to HTC Sensation at the moment. i.e a top of the line phone.

[rollercoaster]

Originally Posted by rollercoaster

I stand by my assessment. But please understand that that assessment is based on a very small 'data sample' and no scientific methods whatsoever. It is just my opinion.

Originally Posted by rollercoaster

Take my word for it. It is bad. or you can confirm by (re)searching online.

Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors

Lol, trust you? Are you some sort of authority? I'm an Android owner - I don't need to take your word for what it's like to use Android - and I'm well-acquainted with Apple products. I had the misfortune of having to use them for several years.

Sign.. No am not an authority. I meant it in a friendly way. Only if you could listen to the woes of developers, you would understand where I am coming from. Anyway I dont want to dig deeper. I have laid out my opinion as have you. Mind if we leave it at that..

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Originally Posted by rollercoaster

I have edited my above posts while you were quoting it.


An example: my HTC Desire. The latest HTC gave us is v2.3 on June 2011, It took HTC 6 months to churn out the update, vanilla release was on December 2010. HTC also stops supporting the device at that time.. This update is however not recommended for most users and wipes the phone, so officially it is stuck at v2.2 (the original version only). The hardware in the phone is however capable of running Android v4.0 which is the newest. But to get that on my device, I need to be a power user, root it, loose HTC Sense, wait for the community to port the OS to this device (which is very unlikely).

How old is this phone? Born on February 16, 2010 and died June 2011. 16 months. R.I.P.
How many major updates it received: 1 (v2.1 to v2.2).
HTC Desire akin to HTC Sensation at the moment. i.e a top of the line phone.

That's only assuming you're going to bother to upgrade the OS. Very few people would. Your phone didn't die. You decided to abandon it because it had an older OS.

I wouldn't, and apparently I'm a "power user." If you want to talk about geek problems, the iPhone's list is much longer. Which is to say, almost anything you try to do to it that is not exactly what Mac tells you to will brick it unless you are willing to spend way more time on it than it's probably worth.

[rollercoaster]

oh btw, I never said the iPhone is better then Andorid phones. Sorry if it seems like that due to it being the first item on my list of opinions.

I meant each phone/platform has its good and bad sides.

Originally Posted by rollercoaster

Everyone wants an iPhone if they have the money to get it, it has class, it is a status symbol. it is worth the money. Unfortunately, It also carries a lot of 'Apple' bullshit.

Next comes android for the geeks, power users, value-for-money, google services users, Android v4.0 is cutting edge. Unfortunately, droids have short lifes, low quality apps and market fragmentation which is its achilles heel.

Next comes Blackberry for the suits! (iMessage & gTalk threaten BBM quite well). Perfect For Thumb-Jockeys. Design is inherently counterproductive to the whole 'touch' scene.

Next comes Windows Phone, a new contender due to the upcoming Win8, sure to make it big if Microsoft plays it right. Attracts microsoft services users(win,msoffice etc), cheaper then Apple phones, connected with windows OS and Office products.

My first phone was an Android (HTC Desire).
My second phone is an iPhone 4.
My third phone will be Windows Phone 8.

[captkjaneway]

Just bought the Samsung Galaxy SII, and still use my HTC HD2 too

[sakura-panda]

Originally Posted by rollercoaster

7. In the end, the user gets the update very late and doesnt like it. In addition it dawns on the user that very soon the manufacturer and the cellular carrier will stop churning out updates for their specific model. They are profit oriented corps after all. So a droid starts dying as soon as it is born.

This happened to me -- I had my Samsung Moment for less than a year when Samsung/Sprint stopped updating it. I guess I was lucky that it was upgraded from 1.6 to 2.1 (there are a lot of apps that will not run on 1.6) but it has been frozen there. When Sony came out with it's Android app, I was out of luck because it needed at least 2.2 to run (and that is when I upgraded to my Samsung Epic 4G -- a Galaxy S phone and what the Moment should have been.)

Now that the Galaxy S II has been released, I expect my current phone will soon become frozen as well, if it hasn't already. I haven't run into any "needs at least OS xx to run" messages yet, so I must be okay for now.

I like the idea that with an iPhone, I won't have to wonder if my phone has the right update for whatever new app I want to download -- it just always will.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if I can customize an iPhone's pages as much as I do my Android pages, and it would bother me to not be able to have icons for specific contacts or multiple groups with the same application.