Amazon is nobody's friend

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

The definition of a monopoly is a lack of choice. As long as people can chose a competitor there is no monopoly.

I haven't found that definition, what I found was: exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices.

And the lack of choice wouldn't be on the side of the authors, but on the side of the consumers.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I know, I know... I broke my own self-imposed analogy rule. Sue me.
But all this silly talk of monopoly just got the better of me.

I can see the concern: If Amazon can "buy up" all the good authors as both publisher AND distributor, it's a potential trust issue, I think. But it'll have to be worked out in the courts. Who knows? Maybe we'll get an Amazon Publisher and Amazon Distributor bust-up like the Bells.

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

I haven't found that definition, what I found was: exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices.

And the lack of choice wouldn't be on the side of the authors, but on the side of the consumers.

Which also effects choice. FPL is (or was) a monopoly. We could not choose another electricity company. With that came the ability to manipulate price. It is all part and parcel of the same thing regardless of which words are used.

I know that the lack of choice would be on the side of the consumer, and there is no lack of choice. Every book that I have seen has been available through more than one company.

The e-book prices that we see on Amazon are (9 times out of 10 times), set by the publisher. If/When Amazon publishes books, they will set the price. It will be our choice as the consumer whether or not to pay said prices for said e-books. Unlike electricity, e-books are not a necessity. We can very easily speak with our wallets.

Again, there is no monopoly there.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

I know that the lack of choice would be on the side of the consumer, and there is no lack of choice. Every book that I have seen has been available through more than one company.

Which is why Sil_liS pointed you to books you HAVEN'T seen that AREN'T available through more than one company, because Amazon the Publisher has limits on the distribution that, conveniently, favors Amazon the Distributer.

Saying "I am not aware of X" (in this case, books only available at Amazon) and then getting upset when someone posts evidence of X is kind of... unfair. Imho.

Am I misunderstanding the disconnect here?

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Which is why Sil_liS pointed you to books you HAVEN'T seen that AREN'T available through more than one company, because Amazon the Publisher has limits on the distribution that, conveniently, favors Amazon the Distributer.

Saying "I am not aware of X" (in this case, books only available at Amazon) and then getting upset when someone posts evidence of X is kind of... unfair. Imho.

Am I misunderstanding the disconnect here?

1. I am in no way upset.

2. What evidence was given? I did not see a link or a title.

[kennyc]

Amazon is more like my drug pusher.

[anamardoll]

Nyssa,

Sil_lis posted this link, which it seems you missed.

http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/b...th-caveat.html

In recent instances, Amazon’s exclusive publisher deals have prohibited Barnes & Noble from selling certain e-books.

If you'd like an actual example of an actual book, there's the Konrath one which was a bit of a furor because it's an Amazon Kindle Exclusive and that was a divergence from his previous methodology which was to get a book in as many stores as possible:

http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2010/0...s-release.html

(Konrath is explicitly teaching his readers how to convert the mobi book to epub, incidentally.)

As I understand it, anything published by Amazon Encore (the Amazon Publisher) will ONLY be sold through the Kindle store in terms of e-Book copies. Therefore, yes, there are e-books that are only sold through the Amazon store at Amazon's arrangement. Whether or not this publisher-gives-exclusive-access-to-its-own-distributor is legal is not my purview, but the impetus is there.

Since Amazon Encore deliberately buys up best-selling indie works (hence the "encore" in the name), it's a source of concern to some people to have it ALSO be exclusive to the Kindle store.

(Amusingly, Konrath needs to update his eBook Store page -- the "this book contains all of my writing" option for $43.99 now, notably, doesn't, since he (apparently) can't sell Shaken at his own site, due to his deal with Amazon. I'd find more Konrath links but the internet is being slow tonight.)

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Nyssa,

Sil_lis posted this link, which it seems you missed.

http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/b...th-caveat.html



If you'd like an actual example of an actual book, there's the Konrath one which was a bit of a furor because it's an Amazon Kindle Exclusive and that was a divergence from his previous methodology which was to get a book in as many stores as possible:

http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2010/0...s-release.html

(Konrath is explicitly teaching his readers how to convert the mobi book to epub, incidentally.)

As I understand it, anything published by Amazon Encore (the Amazon Publisher) will ONLY be sold through the Kindle store in terms of e-Book copies. Therefore, yes, there are e-books that are only sold through the Amazon store at Amazon's arrangement. Whether or not this publisher-gives-exclusive-access-to-its-own-distributor is legal is not my purview.

*emphasis added by me.

Which still does not prove a monopoly.

1. The book can be purchased in paper through other stores. B&N, Books-A-Million, BiggerBooks.com to name a few.
2. The book can be borrowed from the library.
3. The author chose to use Amazon instead of some other publisher...Amazon did not "force" him to do so. He has prevented consumers from getting the e-book version from other sources.

Again, there is no proof of a monopoly. When Amazon becomes the only source for all of the items it sells, (like FPL once being the only source for electricity in the city, county, or state of Florida) then I will consider it a monopoly.

[pidgeon92]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

They were sued by a high school student that lost his notes. They had to pay $150k. Compare that to $30. It's not about fair, they wanted to avoid getting sued.

So? Of course they don't want a lawsuit. Nobody wants to be involved in a lawsuit. They still gave each and every other purchaser $30 back for a book they paid less than $10 for. Still sounds like a win for the consumer.

[Fbone]

Thomas & Mercer, an Amazon publisher, has 4 novels soon to be published. They are available as pre-order. B&N is selling the print editions for the exact same price as Amazon. So, according to Mr Lynch they will have the ebooks for sale when released.

[frahse]

Originally Posted by Skip Wyona

I like Amazon and am a frequent customer. I like it that their items are cheap and shipping is often free. I also recognize that Amazon does not control the book market ... yet, but not for want of trying. I would like Amazon even better however if Amazon did not have unfair advantages in what is supposed to be a free market. Can there be no doubt that Amazon gets a free ride to the detriment of brick and mortar stores? Should not buyers have to pay sales tax for example as they must for most other purchases? I fear that these praises of Amazon posted here might have unforeseen consequences in the future. All users should take warning from Aesop and re-read the fable 'Killing the Goose That Laid the Golden Eggs'.

I beg to differ Skip Wyona.

Amazon pays to ship directly to the customer. That is a higher expense than the so called brick and mortar stores pay for their bulk shipping in big tricks and on railways. You have to factor that cost into their overhead.

Yes state and local governments don't get their sales tax, but the citizens of those states and local governments get lower costs and thus are better able to support these state and local governments.

Amazon doesn't get a free ride. They provide the citizens good products at a low cost, and with incredible efficiency.

If you want to look at free rides, look at such artifices as not charging sales tax above $300 on an automobile sale. Look at giving tax breaks on first and 2nd mortgages. Look at farm subsidies, ethanol subsidies, homesteader exemptions, etc., etc., and so on forever.

What we have is politics in action where "people" decide what is fair, but there are groups of other people that disagree.

[speakingtohe]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sil_liS
I'm not talking about that. What I replied to was:

Did you find ebooks that were published exclusively by Amazon on sites of other distributors?

I don't know of any titles exclusively published by Amazon. If there are titles that were exclusively published by Amazon then it was the author or holder of the book rights who chose to exclusively publish with Amazon. That was their choice. They didn't have to work with Amazon. They could have gone elsewhere. That is my point. In no way is Amazon, the company, a monopoly, because people have choices.

The definition of a monopoly is a lack of choice. As long as people can chose a competitor there is no monopoly.

I agree.
Also as long as their are books available in any format there is no monopoly.

Any author exclusively selling their own books could more reasonably charged with being a monopoly. And any store selling their own brand name or restaurant with a unique recipe.

Not saying it couldn't happen, but untill you cannot legally acquire most books in any format elsewhere, the word monopoly does not in any way apply.

Helen

[frahse]

Originally Posted by pidgeon92

If I recall correctly, the book was in the $5-$10 range, and they gave customers back $30. More than fair.

Thanks pidgeon92. I started to point out that and a few other things to Sil_liS, but I realized that every comment I made produced still another retort that had no substance so I just let it go and moved on.

I try to realize early on when discussions are fruitless. Saves everyone time.

[frahse]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

They were sued by a high school student that lost his notes. They had to pay $150k. Compare that to $30. It's not about fair, they wanted to avoid getting sued.

..See.

[frahse]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Analogy Police!

I'm not convinced that hamburgers are comparable in the same way that books and artistic works are comparable.

anamardoll,

products are products and everyone has their own priorities. Don't turn up your nose at others needs.

I take it that you have never been hungry.