Amazon, B&N, Kobo: iOS aps to be pulled in June - Page 30

Joykins · 03-03-2011, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApK

Apologies for this brief detour off-topic, but I just discovered Baen's free library. Awesome! I don't know how effective it's been as the drm/piracy experiment it was intended to be, but insofar as it's also intended to get people hooked by giving away the first books of popular series, it has sure hooked me. It has a bunch of great stuff there.

Anecdotally, it drives a surge in sales. http://www.baen.com/library/palaver6.htm

Worldwalker · 03-03-2011, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonetools

Of course, ALL booksellers use DRM.

No they don't.

I don't buy DRM-locked ebooks. And I have no shortage of books to buy. I buy from O'Reilly, Baen, BVC, Smashwords, BeWrite, and various other publishers. Without DRM.

Quote:

I'm beginning to think that you guys are in AMAZON'S pay.

I own a Sony PRS-505. I've never bought an ebook from Amazon in my life. Or from Sony, for that matter. So much for that theory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Minton

DRM does provide some protection and, if I had to 'give' my writing away, well -- I probably wouldnt do much of it. And, arrogance aside, the reader would be the loser.

No it doesn't.

The example I always use: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows has never been released as an official ebook (the author likes paper). It was, however, out on the darknet before its official release. Another example: I just bought Science and Sanity, which was finally released as an ebook a few days ago. If I wanted to take that route, I could have had it, in several formats, off any number of torrents a year or more ago. People who want illicit ebooks will get them if someone has to scan the physical books.

DRM doesn't stop the pirates from copying any book they want. Go look at the torrent tracker of your choice for proof. It only enforces device lock-in so the honest people have to buy their library all over again if they want to switch to a different device (say, a Kindle instead of a Nook) and leaves them out in the cold entirely if the authentication provider chooses not to continue supporting their format, or just goes under. DRM does not benefit authors. DRM does not benefit readers. It benefits only those people who want readers to use their device instead of a competitor's. Those people are neither the authors nor the readers.

People who will steal your books were never your customers in the first place. Screwing over the people who are your customers to make life marginally more difficult (if that) for people who are not your customers is not a route to business success.

Joykins · 03-03-2011, 10:34 PM

I do buy DRMed e-books but I know how (and do) strip it so I can convert them to go on all my devices, and also to reformat things that are poorly formatted by the publisher. It took me about 20 minutes to figure out how to do it, and now it is just point-click-go.

If I'm "technically" breaking a law, I don't care. I paid for those books; I didn't steal them.

carld · 03-03-2011, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joykins

Anecdotally, it drives a surge in sales. http://www.baen.com/library/palaver6.htm

I've bought several books from authors I've read in the free library myself, so I can see that driving sales.

CleverClothe · 03-04-2011, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonetools

No, the makers of those devices didn't allow any other booksellers on their closed devices at all. I fail to see how that is any better.
Apple hasn't (and probably doesn't want) to force anyone off its devices, and hasn't pulled any stunt that anyone else is aware of. But thanks for a classic example of misinformation.

Sony has sold a bunch of readers in Europe. There is no Sony Europe ebook store. I guess all those people are just pretending to read ebooks, since your post has enlightened us to the fact that only Sony books can be read on a Sony Reader.

kennyc · 03-04-2011, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joykins

I do buy DRMed e-books but I know how (and do) strip it so I can convert them to go on all my devices, and also to reformat things that are poorly formatted by the publisher. It took me about 20 minutes to figure out how to do it, and now it is just point-click-go.

If I'm "technically" breaking a law, I don't care. I paid for those books; I didn't steal them.

I agree. I will not buy a drm-locked book unless I know that I can remove the drm.

wyndslash · 03-04-2011, 06:22 AM

i'm really annoyed that we have to pay a premium due to the agency prices and we still have to deal with poor formatting. i think that's what irks me the most; that they have the audacity to ask for such prices when they can't even guarantee the quality of their electronic versions.

Horemheb · 03-04-2011, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

I will not buy a drm-locked book unless I know that I can remove the drm.

You are right. And even so, no matter what, you pay for DRM because the bookseller includes the costs of DRM in the price.

So in fact you pay twice:
1. With your money to let the booksellers/publishers implement an obstable in your way to practice your rights as a customer
2. With your time and effort to remove that obstacle afterwards.

It makes perfect sense.

snipenekkid · 03-04-2011, 08:03 AM

Nobody has directly mentioned the real reason one cannot read DRM EPUB and DRM MOBI/Amazon on the same dedicated reader device. It is the owners of the DRM scheme used that prevent devices from supporting multiple DRM schemes. Adobe and the old MOBI were both at fault for this situation. MOBI would not allow a device maker to license their DRM unless it was exclusive and Adobe took the same position with their DRM, ADE which is currently used in a HUGE number of titles.

However I have yet to encounter a single title out in DRM'd ADE that I could not also find at Amazon. Now with the Agency pricing this might change some time in the future as Apple uses their iOS numbers to seduce the bean counters at the various publishing houses over to the idea of "...just sell on iOS". I suspect the reason for all of this BS with iOS/Apple is Jobs simply cannot allow himself to admit he has backed the company into a corner here. He cannot hope to challenge Amazon or even B&N on his own platform simply because the others allow users to buy and then read on pretty much any device. no amount of spin doctoring can overcome those facts.

And the true reason no other device maker is allowing iBooks on their platform is the entire DRM issue. Add to that Apple introducing yet ANOTHER DRM scheme, which by the way limits reading of the books to ONLY iOS devices and who knows when Apple will decide to stop supporting older iOS devices forcing people to buy a new device or lose content, period. Plus if Apple did decide to license their DRM Apple would expected to also be paid to allow the device maker to use the format on their device.

And consider this really nobody buys an iOS device to use iBooks yet they do indeed buy an iOS device to use Kindle4iOS, Kobo and B&N apps.

So really it has little to nothing to do with the other device makers at all. It's about Apple's own closed door policy concerning content finally painting them Apple shaped rear-ends into a corner. Apple needs to suck it up and admit to their unofficial/official policy of "...if you don't buy it in the Apple store you can't read it on our hardware so piss-off ya losers."

tompe · 03-04-2011, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

I agree. I will not buy a drm-locked book unless I know that I can remove the drm.

But that is immoral. And it is like theft from the author since you avoid re-buying the book for another device.

John F · 03-04-2011, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonetools

I don't think that this is Apple's idea. Amazon, B&N and Kobo all have platforms closed to each other-and to Apple. Blah, Blah, Blah...

Are you sure about this? I haven't heard anything about Apple being rejected from the Kindle Development Kit beta.

Did you try applying here: https://kdk.amazon.com/gp/vendor/sig...s%2Fkdk%2Fhome

CyGuy · 03-04-2011, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

But that is immoral. And it is like theft from the author since you avoid re-buying the book for another device.

I certainly hope you meant that in jest!

HansTWN · 03-04-2011, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

But that is immoral. And it is like theft from the author since you avoid re-buying the book for another device.

You can even have a DRMed book on a number of devices simultaneously, legally. So if, for example, you have Amazon books on an old Kindle and you get a new model or a device with a Kindle app you wouldn't have to buy the book again in any case. Removing DRM is fine for me, but I definitely won't hand copies of the book to others. I follow the spirit, if not the letter of the law. Sure, it would be great to buy the books DRM free. But a boycott by a few people here won't help much and I just wouldn't get to read the books I want. So I grudgingly accept DRM as long as I can remove it.

ApK · 03-04-2011, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyGuy

I certainly hope you meant that in jest!

Look at his sig.

tompe · 03-04-2011, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyGuy

I certainly hope you meant that in jest!

Well, yes. But I actually think it is more immoral to buy ebooks and remove DRM than downloading a "problematic" copy. It is like accepting and supporting a corrupt and immoral system. But that is just my opinons and I am aware that most people do not share these opinions.

03-04-2011, 08:03 AM	#444
snipenekkid Banned Posts: 760 Karma: 51034 Join Date: Feb 2009	Nobody has directly mentioned the real reason one cannot read DRM EPUB and DRM MOBI/Amazon on the same dedicated reader device. It is the owners of the DRM scheme used that prevent devices from supporting multiple DRM schemes. Adobe and the old MOBI were both at fault for this situation. MOBI would not allow a device maker to license their DRM unless it was exclusive and Adobe took the same position with their DRM, ADE which is currently used in a HUGE number of titles. However I have yet to encounter a single title out in DRM'd ADE that I could not also find at Amazon. Now with the Agency pricing this might change some time in the future as Apple uses their iOS numbers to seduce the bean counters at the various publishing houses over to the idea of "...just sell on iOS". I suspect the reason for all of this BS with iOS/Apple is Jobs simply cannot allow himself to admit he has backed the company into a corner here. He cannot hope to challenge Amazon or even B&N on his own platform simply because the others allow users to buy and then read on pretty much any device. no amount of spin doctoring can overcome those facts. And the true reason no other device maker is allowing iBooks on their platform is the entire DRM issue. Add to that Apple introducing yet ANOTHER DRM scheme, which by the way limits reading of the books to ONLY iOS devices and who knows when Apple will decide to stop supporting older iOS devices forcing people to buy a new device or lose content, period. Plus if Apple did decide to license their DRM Apple would expected to also be paid to allow the device maker to use the format on their device. And consider this really nobody buys an iOS device to use iBooks yet they do indeed buy an iOS device to use Kindle4iOS, Kobo and B&N apps. So really it has little to nothing to do with the other device makers at all. It's about Apple's own closed door policy concerning content finally painting them Apple shaped rear-ends into a corner. Apple needs to suck it up and admit to their unofficial/official policy of "...if you don't buy it in the Apple store you can't read it on our hardware so piss-off ya losers." Last edited by snipenekkid; 03-04-2011 at 08:06 AM.

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03-03-2011, 10:34 PM	#438
Joykins Wizard Posts: 1,610 Karma: 9211856 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: kindle Oasis 2018, kindle 4 NT, kindle PW2, iPhone, iPad mini	I do buy DRMed e-books but I know how (and do) strip it so I can convert them to go on all my devices, and also to reformat things that are poorly formatted by the publisher. It took me about 20 minutes to figure out how to do it, and now it is just point-click-go. If I'm "technically" breaking a law, I don't care. I paid for those books; I didn't steal them.

03-04-2011, 06:22 AM	#442
wyndslash Wizard Posts: 2,951 Karma: 3000001 Join Date: Feb 2011 Device: Kindle 3 wifi, Kindle Fire	i'm really annoyed that we have to pay a premium due to the agency prices and we still have to deal with poor formatting. i think that's what irks me the most; that they have the audacity to ask for such prices when they can't even guarantee the quality of their electronic versions.