HarperCollins Puts 26 Loan Cap on Ebook Circulations - Page 8

kennyc · 03-02-2011, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfrizz

Yes it's called greed. There are hb books in librarys that are DECADES old and still in use.

This!!!!!!

gojisube · 03-02-2011, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stickybuns

From what I've gathered, libraries already pay a higher price for ebooks.

I think someone already answered you, but yes they do pay a higher price. At the library system where I work, the OverDrive price for an ebook was close to the hardback list price. Actually paid more for an ebook copy than a print copy. Granted we bought 50 hardback copies and 2 ebooks.

I just wish the publishers would come out and admit that libraries are only leasing copies and price the ebooks accordingly. We aren't buying anything, just the right to have a "copy" until the format is no longer supported. Many Libraries have used lease plans for best sellers for decades, why not use that model with ebooks? That's pretty much what HC is wanting to do.

Xanthe · 03-02-2011, 11:23 PM

With libraries usually the first one's being squeezed when the town/city/township's budgets need crunching, and given how long it usually takes for them to get the funding to upgrade their technology, this new policy is going to be a killer for ebook lending, IMO.

Though I suppose we have to give some thanks to these short-sighted and greedy publishers - their actions will keep physical libraries in business instead of switching the emphasis over to electronic lending. Good for illustrators, too, I suppose.

scrappy_dude · 03-03-2011, 01:43 PM

I'm really trying to look at both sides of this.

1. If I was a stockholder of HC, I would be all for the management trying to maximize profit and increase shareholder value. I also agree an ebook will not wear out like physical books, so there is the potential of getting more use out of ebooks than paper books.

2. But the publisher is saving money too, since they do not have absorb the cost to actually print and bind an ebook like a paper book.

3. Like a few other have stated, I check out many ebooks yet only read a few. I may only read a couple of pages and determine the book is not really one I'm interested in. It's sad a library would have to count it as a full checkout in those cases.

4. Physical books can be sold and traded unlike ebooks so publisher do not necessarily lose money on ebooks that never wear out. I trade all my ebooks on paperbackswap.com, publishers cannot claim they lose money on only ebooks. There has been no effort to stop trading/selling paper books after you are done reading them.

Maybe a compromise would be to have an initial cost to get the ebook, then a lower (hopefully much lower) charge to the library after the 26 loans. That way the library can "buy" the ebook like they do now and when the 26 checkouts is used up, they can make a decision whether to "renew" the book if it's still in demand.

rogue_librarian · 03-03-2011, 02:09 PM

In case you haven't seen it:

HarperCollins Hardcover after 26+ checkouts (Youtube)

silasgreenback · 03-03-2011, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfrizz

Yes it's called greed. There are hb books in librarys that are DECADES old and still in use.

There are O. Henry and Rex Stout books from the 50's in my library's main branch. The binding is so top notch that they're probably only 2/3 through their lifespan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

In case you haven't seen it:

HarperCollins Hardcover after 26+ checkouts (Youtube)

Great video!

Crusader · 03-03-2011, 04:35 PM

I've done a blog post checking the number of checkouts of the books I got from my local library.

One was a new release so I left it out. The rest are books that have been in circulation for between 14-17 years and they have between 33-58 checkouts each. They are all in surprisingly good condition - and two are paperbacks! Click here for blog post with pics.

Also keep in mind this is for a small town library (population roughly 8000 - 10000).

BearMountainBooks · 03-03-2011, 04:49 PM

Having worked at a library (and I have no horse in this race) I've seen books get checked out once and be ruined and I've seen books last a few years. YA and children's books get far less checkouts before they must be recycled. However, we had paperbacks that had been dropped in the tub, kicked through mud, had coffee spilled on and so on that became unreadable.

I would not say 26 is any kind of average, especially compared to a hardback, although two years for a YA is not unreasonable. A popular YA such as Harry Potter? Our library ordered 5 copies of each volume. I think two of those lasted under a year.

It really varies by book and patrons.

FF2 · 03-03-2011, 05:07 PM

The video is really well-done. I'm sure that there are examples where pbooks did not make 26 loans. But I do wonder which libraries HC checked to come up with its numbers.

Harmon · 03-03-2011, 07:04 PM

[QUOTE=CribQuilter;1416463]There is no way the libraries are going to buy ebooks that have to be repurchased every year, or more frequently as my library has a 7 day borrow time option, nor would I expect them to either. HC is making it to where we will have no option but to buy, as borrowing from the library will no longer be an option.[QUOTE]

I wonder if this might not boomerang on publishers if it becomes a general movement. They seem to have overlooked that the Librarian of Congress could decide to allow libraries to strip any proprietary DRM which interferes with their historical right to lend books to the public.

And if I were an author, I'd be furious. What this means is that anyone who goes with H-C will not have their current ebook or back catalogue of ebooks generally available in the library. This simply cannot be a good thing for anyone who wants their books to be read.

silasgreenback · 03-03-2011, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmon

I wonder if this might not boomerang on publishers if it becomes a general movement.

It doesn't seem too far a stretch to imagine that torrents might appear that contain nothing but plundered HarperCollins titles with the chastity belts removed. All for the sake of spite.

I don't doubt either that some people that would otherwise frown on the activity would be willing to bend their morals just because of the association with Rupert Murdoch.

Harmon · 03-03-2011, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boston

So rather than gaining sales through this restriction, they are not only hurting the libraries but also losing a venue for their authors to gain new readers.

I wonder what would happen if some enterprising publisher really tried to think constructively about library ebook lending, instead of trying to fight off the future?

I mean, a library is a kind of publicity device for books and authors. The library is actually paying you, the publisher, to permit it to put your product into actual readers' hands. Surely there's a way to leverage this?

So why not afford the reader a pathway to your ebook store? Or an easy way to get on your mailing list? Include the first chapter of some other book, to lure the reader into wanting to get it, even if they have to buy it? Or give them a discount coupon to use to find out how buying an ebook now beats hanging out on the library's waitlist.

Barcey · 03-03-2011, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

In case you haven't seen it:

The book that was borrowed 120 times was published in Nov 1998. If we had a 14 year copyright they wouldn't have to buy another copy.

pietrocrazy · 03-03-2011, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmon

And if I were an author, I'd be furious. What this means is that anyone who goes with H-C will not have their current ebook or back catalogue of ebooks generally available in the library. This simply cannot be a good thing for anyone who wants their books to be read.

This is a really, really good point. With paper books, libraries are constantly forced to get rid of old, unpopular titles to make room for new, more popular books. Ebooks don't have the disadvantage of taking up physical space, so there's no reason to get rid of old titles. But if libraries are forced to constantly relicense ebooks, there's no reason to keep older books which will provide, relatively speaking, less value to library patrons than new stuff.

Amalthia · 03-04-2011, 01:52 PM

I'm not sure if anyone else brought this up but if HarperCollins is licensing th ebook to the library does the author get a higher royalty rate on books purchased by libraries? It's not technically sold. I think I read somewhere that the reason publishers are still saying ebooks are sold and not licenced has to do with the royality rates.

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03-02-2011, 11:23 PM	#108
Xanthe Plan B Is Now In Force Posts: 1,894 Karma: 8086979 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Surebleak Device: Aluratek,Sony 350/T1,Pandigital,eBM 911,Nook HD/HD+,Fire HDX 7/8.9,PW2	With libraries usually the first one's being squeezed when the town/city/township's budgets need crunching, and given how long it usually takes for them to get the funding to upgrade their technology, this new policy is going to be a killer for ebook lending, IMO. Though I suppose we have to give some thanks to these short-sighted and greedy publishers - their actions will keep physical libraries in business instead of switching the emphasis over to electronic lending. Good for illustrators, too, I suppose.

03-03-2011, 01:43 PM	#109
scrappy_dude Junior Member Posts: 5 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2011 Device: Sony PRS-505	I'm really trying to look at both sides of this. 1. If I was a stockholder of HC, I would be all for the management trying to maximize profit and increase shareholder value. I also agree an ebook will not wear out like physical books, so there is the potential of getting more use out of ebooks than paper books. 2. But the publisher is saving money too, since they do not have absorb the cost to actually print and bind an ebook like a paper book. 3. Like a few other have stated, I check out many ebooks yet only read a few. I may only read a couple of pages and determine the book is not really one I'm interested in. It's sad a library would have to count it as a full checkout in those cases. 4. Physical books can be sold and traded unlike ebooks so publisher do not necessarily lose money on ebooks that never wear out. I trade all my ebooks on paperbackswap.com, publishers cannot claim they lose money on only ebooks. There has been no effort to stop trading/selling paper books after you are done reading them. Maybe a compromise would be to have an initial cost to get the ebook, then a lower (hopefully much lower) charge to the library after the 26 loans. That way the library can "buy" the ebook like they do now and when the 26 checkouts is used up, they can make a decision whether to "renew" the book if it's still in demand.

03-03-2011, 02:09 PM	#110
rogue_librarian Guru Posts: 973 Karma: 4269175 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Europe Device: Pocketbook Basic 613	In case you haven't seen it: HarperCollins Hardcover after 26+ checkouts (Youtube)

03-03-2011, 04:35 PM	#112
Crusader Space Cadet Posts: 1,180 Karma: 4030536 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: South Africa Device: Sony PRS-T1, Cybook Opus, Kobo Glo	I've done a blog post checking the number of checkouts of the books I got from my local library. One was a new release so I left it out. The rest are books that have been in circulation for between 14-17 years and they have between 33-58 checkouts each. They are all in surprisingly good condition - and two are paperbacks! Click here for blog post with pics. Also keep in mind this is for a small town library (population roughly 8000 - 10000).

03-03-2011, 04:49 PM	#113
BearMountainBooks Maria Schneider Posts: 3,746 Karma: 26439330 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Near Austin, Texas Device: 3g Kindle Keyboard	Having worked at a library (and I have no horse in this race) I've seen books get checked out once and be ruined and I've seen books last a few years. YA and children's books get far less checkouts before they must be recycled. However, we had paperbacks that had been dropped in the tub, kicked through mud, had coffee spilled on and so on that became unreadable. I would not say 26 is any kind of average, especially compared to a hardback, although two years for a YA is not unreasonable. A popular YA such as Harry Potter? Our library ordered 5 copies of each volume. I think two of those lasted under a year. It really varies by book and patrons.

03-03-2011, 05:07 PM	#114
FF2 Wizard Posts: 1,105 Karma: 1025784 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: WiFi Kindle3	The video is really well-done. I'm sure that there are examples where pbooks did not make 26 loans. But I do wonder which libraries HC checked to come up with its numbers.

03-03-2011, 07:04 PM	#115
Harmon King of the Bongo Drums Posts: 1,632 Karma: 5927225 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Excelsior! (Strange...)	[QUOTE=CribQuilter;1416463]There is no way the libraries are going to buy ebooks that have to be repurchased every year, or more frequently as my library has a 7 day borrow time option, nor would I expect them to either. HC is making it to where we will have no option but to buy, as borrowing from the library will no longer be an option.[QUOTE] I wonder if this might not boomerang on publishers if it becomes a general movement. They seem to have overlooked that the Librarian of Congress could decide to allow libraries to strip any proprietary DRM which interferes with their historical right to lend books to the public. And if I were an author, I'd be furious. What this means is that anyone who goes with H-C will not have their current ebook or back catalogue of ebooks generally available in the library. This simply cannot be a good thing for anyone who wants their books to be read.

03-04-2011, 01:52 PM	#120
Amalthia Wizard Posts: 1,190 Karma: 32370 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Anchorage, AK Device: Sony Reader PRS-505, PRS-650, PRS-T3, Pocketbook HD2	I'm not sure if anyone else brought this up but if HarperCollins is licensing th ebook to the library does the author get a higher royalty rate on books purchased by libraries? It's not technically sold. I think I read somewhere that the reason publishers are still saying ebooks are sold and not licenced has to do with the royality rates.