How does ePUB DRM work?

[Wolf3]

Okay, so Sony uses this Adept which has activation. Barnes & Noble supports Adept, but the actual Nook store uses password (credit card) based DRM that does NOT have activation.

Hopefully I understand this now! :lol:

I kind of feel like Barnes & Noble could advertise their (to me at least) better DRM.

[abookreader]

yes - But if you want my unsolicited advice

If you aren't willing to remove DRM, I'd recommend you stick with buying Adobe Digital Edition ePub books as currently, the most readers support that format. Barnes and Noble books can only be read on Barnes and Noble devices and Apps.

I mean, if your moving away from Amazon you will have already "lost" all your books in that format unless you read them on your computer or an iPad/iPhone or Android device etc. If you buy eBooks from Barnes and Noble and later decide to use a non-Nook device, you'll be in the same situation with those books. In other words, DRM strangles and specialized DRM extra-strangles.

You can buy a nook (If that is the device you choose) and purchase from stores that supply Adobe Digital Edition books.

[ATDrake]

Regarding Fictionwise: they have discount coupons every so often (most recent was 55% off, posted in the Deals forum) which apply to most of the store (some publishers don't allow additional discounting).

Also, their MultiFormat books are DRM-free and you can download from up to 11 different formats to meet your needs. And their remaining DRM-ed books seem to be all Secure eReader format which works like a glorified username/password combo, no activation necessary.

FW used to have Adobe ePub and they might still have PDF, but they mostly turfed all the other Secure format options in an insanely stupid business move. They really haven't been the same since being bought out by B&N.

So if you do end up with an e-ink Nook (Nook Colour doesn't support eReader format any more unless you root it and install the eReader app), you can often get certain titles cheaper over at Fictionwise than B&N, as long as you're okay with having your books in an older and less future-proof format.

[Wolf3]

Thanks for the Fictionwise info! I've GOT to check them out first from now on. Should have been this whole time, had I known.

[Marseille]

Originally Posted by geertm

B&N's DRM does not use ADE. The encryption is completely enclosed within the book. The book is not tied to any hardware or software ID. There is no authorization, activation or special software needed.
You can just copy a book with B&N's DRM to an unlimited number of supported devices. If you open the book it will ask for the credit card number and name the book was encrypted with. Anyone who knows this information (the social part of the DRM) can open the book. The key generated by this information will be stored on the device, and other books encrypted with the same information will open immediately.

This was definitely how it worked for fictionwise/ereader (a strong factor in my 8 yrs of patronage of ereader.com -- drm that doesn't phone home is better than drm that does. learned that the hard way), but since Nook introduced its time-limited book lending, I assumed B&N made changes or switched what DRM they used. Else how can they limit how many times you lend the book and how long it's readable?

The only alternative I can think of is that only lent books get a different DRM wrapper protected by more than just social DRM. Any idea what the impact on lending is on their DRM?

[Lemurion]

My normal solution is simply to liberate books and read them on whatever device you want - but I understand how someone may not want to do that.

The other option is to get a multi-function device (if you can handle LCD) and use that. Assuming you don't want to root a Nook Color, you can get something like an iPad or Galaxy Tab and put apps on that. I know a Galaxy Tab with the Aldiko, Kindle, and Nook apps will support all three kinds of DRM - everything but Apple's - and I'm sure there are equivalents for the iPad.

It's a thought.

[Wolf3]

Originally Posted by David Marseilles

This was definitely how it worked for fictionwise/ereader (a strong factor in my 8 yrs of patronage of ereader.com -- drm that doesn't phone home is better than drm that does. learned that the hard way), but since Nook introduced its time-limited book lending, I assumed B&N made changes or switched what DRM they used. Else how can they limit how many times you lend the book and how long it's readable?

The only alternative I can think of is that only lent books get a different DRM wrapper protected by more than just social DRM. Any idea what the impact on lending is on their DRM?

That's an interesting question... I think that "lending" feature was there from the beginning though? So it must just be password protected...the original copy at least, so that's good.

Originally Posted by Lemurion

My normal solution is simply to liberate books and read them on whatever device you want - but I understand how someone may not want to do that.

The other option is to get a multi-function device (if you can handle LCD) and use that. Assuming you don't want to root a Nook Color, you can get something like an iPad or Galaxy Tab and put apps on that. I know a Galaxy Tab with the Aldiko, Kindle, and Nook apps will support all three kinds of DRM - everything but Apple's - and I'm sure there are equivalents for the iPad.

It's a thought.

Regarding the iPad, I wouldn't count on any iOS devices, what with how Apple's trying to rip off companies like Amazon! Reaaaaally glad we found out about that BEFORE the iPad 2 came out, as there's no way I'm buying any more iOS stuff now.

[Marseille]

Originally Posted by Wolf3

That's an interesting question... I think that "lending" feature was there from the beginning though? So it must just be password protected...the original copy at least, so that's good.

Not since the beginning of the eReader social DRM, which is mostly what geertm described. I can't imagine any means to do time limited lending without a deep change, that yes, hopefully only applies to the lended copy.

[JimMcLaren]

Originally Posted by Lemurion

The other option is to get a multi-function device (if you can handle LCD) and use that. Assuming you don't want to root a Nook Color, you can get something like an iPad or Galaxy Tab and put apps on that. I know a Galaxy Tab with the Aldiko, Kindle, and Nook apps will support all three kinds of DRM - everything but Apple's - and I'm sure there are equivalents for the iPad.

Going with a multi-function device might be a good idea. My backup reader is a Pandigital Novel. It will run Aldiko, Kindle and Nook apps. You wouldn't lose your Kindle books and would be able to open most other formats too. The Novel at $125 is quite a bit cheaper than the other devices listed. You get what you pay for but for me its good enough.

[Lemurion]

Originally Posted by JimMcLaren

Going with a multi-function device might be a good idea. My backup reader is a Pandigital Novel. It will run Aldiko, Kindle and Nook apps. You wouldn't lose your Kindle books and would be able to open most other formats too. The Novel at $125 is quite a bit cheaper than the other devices listed. You get what you pay for but for me its good enough.

The PocketBook IQ's another good option at a similar price.

I went with the Nook Color as it's got the capacitive screen and higher resolution, but there are a lot of options out there.

[Asawi]

Originally Posted by Wolf3

Okay, so Sony uses this Adept which has activation. Barnes & Noble supports Adept, but the actual Nook store uses password (credit card) based DRM that does NOT have activation.

Hopefully I understand this now! :lol:

I kind of feel like Barnes & Noble could advertise their (to me at least) better DRM.

Out of curiousity, do you really feel it's better to have your name and credit card # in the book file? I sure would not like that very much! If there is an easy way to strip DRM (and there is) I'm guessing it would be equally easy to extract and read that DRM should you get hold of a encrypted file (like if someone stole your reader).
If they advertised that I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be the only one saying "no way"!
Just proves how different we can be! And by that I'm absolutely NOT saying I'm any more "right" than you are! Just that we think differently, which after all is what make progress in the world!

[Marseille]

The DRM stripping method for eReader pdbs only requires part of the CC# to strip the file. My guess is, if anyone could extract something, it would only be those digits. AFAIK, no one has bothered trying. And it wouldn't be equally easy to crack the code because for deDRMing the user still provides the code initially. It would take a lot of time and processing power to get past the encryption without that.

The point of social DRM isn't to threaten you with financial loss, just to ID you if you spread the file around.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Asawi

If there is an easy way to strip DRM (and there is) I'm guessing it would be equally easy to extract and read that DRM should you get hold of a encrypted file (like if someone stole your reader).

The name and CC# and put through a one-way hash function (i.e. some of the information is lost — the hash is shorter than the input). There's NO way to get back to the name and CC# from the information in a B&N DRMed ebook.

Removing the DRM requires having the name and CC# already.

[Asawi]

Thank you for putting me at ease about that part of my DRM worries! Phew!

[CyberSmoke53]

Originally Posted by Wolf3

I just thought of another semi-random question...is there any eBook store that sells a wide variety of modern books that don't have DRM? Or that work with different eReaders?

I've bought books from Scifi Arizona before, that's this small thing set up by a science fiction author, where you just pick your format and buy it, and don't have to worry about DRM. Not sure if there's anything like that on a larger scale...I'm vaguely aware of like that there's a place called "Fictionwise" and other stores like that, but not really sure about all this.

Baen.com's webscriptions ebook store sells SciFi titles without DRM in multiple formats that work on many devices. Once you buy the book you can redown load the book in different formats. Its one of the few places I've purchased ebooks that I have been able to "upgrade" former purchases to new formats as I've purchased new reading devices. Many popular SciFi author's current books and some backlist books are available. More are always being added.