How does ePUB DRM work?

[Wolf3]

My Kindle 2 kinda sorta took a dive off a dryer a few days ago, and I'm trying to figure out what to get to replace it.

Amazon/Kindle's DRM is activation based, and (as far as I know) lets you have 5-6 simultaneous activations-removing a book from a device or unregistering the device frees up an activation 'slot' for another device.

But how does ePub's DRM work? I'd heard that it actually uses a password instead of activation. That would be great, as I don't like activation...I like the idea that even if Sony or Nook goes away, I'd still be able to move my books to another compatible device just by coping them over and typing in a password.

My understand is that both the Sony Readers and Nooks use ePUB, but that the Nook uses a different form of DRM, that isn't supported on the Sony readers? So maybe one uses activation and one doesn't...or something.

Also while I'm at it, do any of the Sony readers have hardware page turn buttons? From pictures it doesn't look like it, and I'm not a fan of touch screens. Unfortunately Barnes & Noble hasn't updated the eInk Nook with an eInk Pearl screen, sort of making it less attractive to me than a Kindle 3/DX or a Sony Reader.

Any thoughts on all this would be appreciated!

[Wolf3]

I just thought of another semi-random question...is there any eBook store that sells a wide variety of modern books that don't have DRM? Or that work with different eReaders?

I've bought books from Scifi Arizona before, that's this small thing set up by a science fiction author, where you just pick your format and buy it, and don't have to worry about DRM. Not sure if there's anything like that on a larger scale...I'm vaguely aware of like that there's a place called "Fictionwise" and other stores like that, but not really sure about all this.

[jgaskell]

My PRS-650 has hardware page turn buttons. It is what I use mostly.

[bill_mchale]

Hi.

Essentially, the ePub standard does not specify a standard DRM. As a result, there are actually several different competing DRM schemes.

1. Adobe Digital Editions Adept DRM. This DRM scheme is essentially supported by most eBook readers with the exception of the Kindle. Unfortunately, it does require registering your device.

2. Adobe Digital Editions with eReader DRM. This DRM was developed originally for the eReader ebook format (supported mostly by Fictionwise, which is now owned by B&N), and was ported into Adobe Digital Editions by B&N and Adobe. It is only supported by a handful of devices (Though any device with ADE could support it) including the Nook, the Pandigital Novel ereaders and I am pretty sure the Jetbook and Jetbook-Lite. Only B&N sell books with ereader DRM on them.

3. Apple DRM... I am pretty sure you have to register your iPad/iPod, but it is probably pretty seemless.

So, essentially, unless you are planning on buying all your books from B&N, you are probably going to have to register your device.

--
Bill

[bill_mchale]

Oh, right forgot to answer your question about the Sony Readers. Yes, they have a small hardware page turn buttons at the bottom left. I would also revisit your dislike of touch screens.. the Sony ones work very well.

Last point, there are a few bookstores that sell DRM free books. Fictionwise still sells them (though very few books published less than a year or two ago.. It is clear that B&N is not interested in keeping them relevant), and then sites like Smashwords.

--
Bill

[Wolf3]

Originally Posted by jgaskell

My PRS-650 has hardware page turn buttons. It is what I use mostly.

Dumb question, but where are they? Are those the buttons on the bottom? Presumably the "Daily Edition" one with an inch bigger screen and 3G access to Sony's store would have that too.

Anyway that's good to hear it has buttons. So weird that I can't tell from pictures!

Originally Posted by bill_mchale

Hi.

Essentially, the ePub standard does not specify a standard DRM. As a result, there are actually several different competing DRM schemes.

1. Adobe Digital Editions Adept DRM. This DRM scheme is essentially supported by most eBook readers with the exception of the Kindle. Unfortunately, it does require registering your device.

2. Adobe Digital Editions with eReader DRM. This DRM was developed originally for the eReader ebook format (supported mostly by Fictionwise, which is now owned by B&N), and was ported into Adobe Digital Editions by B&N and Adobe. It is only supported by a handful of devices (Though any device with ADE could support it) including the Nook, the Pandigital Novel ereaders and I am pretty sure the Jetbook and Jetbook-Lite. Only B&N sell books with ereader DRM on them.

So, essentially, unless you are planning on buying all your books from B&N, you are probably going to have to register your device.

Okay, so basically there's "Adept" DRM and 'eReader' DRM? If I'm understanding this right, Adept works on Sony and Nook, eReader just on Nook?

And do those both use activation? Or does one or the other allow you to just use a password instead, without a connection to the respective store?

[abookreader]

With Adobe you set up an account with Adobe Digital Editions and then you register your "device" to that account.

There is a limit (I think it is 6 but I'm not sure) of how many devices can be registered to one Adobe Digital Account. Once you reach that limit you can contact Adobe and they will free up the space from the old devices you aren't using anymore. People have reported problems in actually getting Adobe to do that.

My advice is to learn how to liberate your books of DRM and buy your digital reader based on the device that has the features you like. After all, if you buy a nook or a Sony next - won't you want to read your Amazon books that you've bought on that device and whatever devices you own in the future?

[Wolf3]

Whoops, was typing that when you said about where the buttons are Bill, thanks to both of you guys!

Originally Posted by abookreader

With Adobe you set up an account with Adobe Digital Editions and then you register your "device" to that account.

There is a limit (I think it is 6 but I'm not sure) of how many devices can be registered to one Adobe Digital Account. Once you reach that limit you can contact Adobe and they will free up the space from the old devices you aren't using anymore. People have reported problems in actually getting Adobe to do that.

Okay, so this is for just Nook? Nook and Sony? What you're describing actually sounds worse than Amazon's DRM, since it's activation, AND you can't free up a slot by deleting a book/device, like you (supposedly) do with Amazon.

My advice is to learn how to liberate your books of DRM and buy your digital reader based on the device that has the features you like. After all, if you buy a nook or a Sony next - won't you want to read your Amazon books that you've bought on that device and whatever devices you own in the future?

Yeah, if it was legal that's what I'd do-I mean to be clear I do not steal, and would only want to be DRM free so I can actually really own the books I'm buying and keep access to them forever, on whatever device I felt like. But because of the DMCA and all that nonsense in the U.S. I'm too scared to even look into it.

I think Amazon's got an advantage with this stuff by at least being straight forward...this ePub stuff is STILL completely confusing me, even after reading everything I can find, and having several people try to explain it!

So at any rate it sounds like the people who said ePub used passwords instead of activation (as you in you don't have to 'phone home' to the mothership, any compatible device can read something just by punching in the password encoded in the book)....sounds like that's NOT the case for Sony or Nook.

I'll have to stare at Fictionwise though...check them to see if they sell a DRM free version of a book before buying it elsewhere, next time I buy a book! Last book I bought was Greg Bear's The Forge of God...Fictionwise has it, and I guess without DRM...for the same price I paid at Amazon. Should have done that, had I known!

[bill_mchale]

Regarding the Nook. When I talked to a B&N person about the Nook about 6 months ago, they said that there was no limits on the number of Nooks that could use the same password. They might have been mistaken though. You would need to register the reader with Adobe to use the Adept DRM though.

And alas, yes, the DRM issue with ePub is a mess. Many of us support ePub, not because we feel it is superior to Kindle DRM, but because at least the format itself is open, and we very much believe it would be a bad thing if the Kindle became the only device out there.

In practice, if you bought a Kobo or Sony reader, and bought from their book stores (for either device), once everything was set it should be as seamless as Amazon for loading books. Though, since I don't buy DRM books, I wouldn't know .

--
Bill

[geertm]

Originally Posted by bill_mchale

Regarding the Nook. When I talked to a B&N person about the Nook about 6 months ago, they said that there was no limits on the number of Nooks that could use the same password. They might have been mistaken though. You would need to register the reader with Adobe to use the Adept DRM though.

And alas, yes, the DRM issue with ePub is a mess. Many of us support ePub, not because we feel it is superior to Kindle DRM, but because at least the format itself is open, and we very much believe it would be a bad thing if the Kindle became the only device out there.

In practice, if you bought a Kobo or Sony reader, and bought from their book stores (for either device), once everything was set it should be as seamless as Amazon for loading books. Though, since I don't buy DRM books, I wouldn't know .

--
Bill

B&N's DRM does not use ADE. The encryption is completely enclosed within the book. The book is not tied to any hardware or software ID. There is no authorization, activation or special software needed.
You can just copy a book with B&N's DRM to an unlimited number of supported devices. If you open the book it will ask for the credit card number and name the book was encrypted with. Anyone who knows this information (the social part of the DRM) can open the book. The key generated by this information will be stored on the device, and other books encrypted with the same information will open immediately.

[AndrewH]

Here are the buttons, circled in red:

From left to right: page left, page right, home (the screen pictured), size (zoom), options.

[Wolf3]

Originally Posted by geertm

B&N's DRM does not use ADE. The encryption is completely enclosed within the book. The book is not tied to any hardware or software ID. There is no authorization, activation or special software needed.
You can just copy a book with B&N's DRM to an unlimited number of supported devices. If you open the book it will ask for the credit card number and name the book was encrypted with. Anyone who knows this information (the social part of the DRM) can open the book. The key generated by this information will be stored on the device, and other books encrypted with the same information will open immediately.

Oh wow, that's FANTASTIC news! Thanks!

Okay, so Sony's works differently though? Has activation?

I'd really like to support the Nook then as like I said, I'm really anti-activation.

Maybe I'll pop over to the Nook section and see if I can hash out which model to get (since I'd really prefer eInk...but want eInk pearly.)

[Wolf3]

Originally Posted by AndrewH

Here are the buttons, circled in red:

From left to right: page left, page right, home (the screen pictured), size (zoom), options.

Thanks! Well, at least its got buttons. I think if Sony's DRM functions the same like where it's password (credit card) protected instead of with activation, I'll buy one of those since I want eInk Pearl and wouldn't mind the 7" screen. Otherwise I guess I'll make do with one of the Nooks.

[outlander78]

I have a Sony 650, which is the same as the 350 and 950 in terms of function, as far as I know (excepting the 950's wireless).

The way it works is you use your Adobe id to authorize your Sony device, and then any DRM ePub file you purchase works without a password or other hurdle. I can buy from Sony, Kobo, or presumably anyone else who supports Adobe DRM/epub files, and just copy the files onto my Sony using Calibre or the Sony software.

So far, the DRM has been harmless for me. I hate DRM, but it seems the only way to get legal purchases, so I live with it.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Wolf3

Thanks! Well, at least its got buttons. I think if Sony's DRM functions the same like where it's password (credit card) protected instead of with activation, I'll buy one of those since I want eInk Pearl and wouldn't mind the 7" screen. Otherwise I guess I'll make do with one of the Nooks.

Sony's DRM is pure ADEPT with no support for the B&N ereader drm.
Activation and device registration is though Adobe ADE or Sony's app.
(Neither of which has the best reputation.)

There are entire threads devoted to *some* people's misadventures and horror stories with ADE:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=117535

Most people get along just fine in the Adept ecosystem, though.
Others prefer to websearch for Apprentice Alf and learn how to do without DRM altogether.
Others just buy DRM-free ebooks.
And others are perfectly happy in the Apple or Amazon or B&N walled gardens.
There is no single answer.

Different strokes for different folks.