How are page numbers determined?

sark666 · 01-01-2011, 11:04 AM

I don't have my kobo in front of me, but if I recall correctly, it would say for example page 40 of 240 regardless of the font size, when you'd think the font size would influence the total page count.

Am I correct in this? And if so, is there a way of knowing how the kobo would determine the page count without currently having my kobo? ie. this paragraph would be considered to be on page 40 of 300 by the kobo.

Danger · 01-01-2011, 11:30 AM

Apparently it's every 1024 characters. Wish there was a way to turn this off on the Kobo as the numbers that appear on the right side are basically useless, especially since they are listed on the bottom as well.

pholy · 01-01-2011, 11:42 AM

There's a thread for that... but I can't find it. So, from memory, it's something like this: For each file, divide the compressed size by 1024 and add 1 if there is a remainder. That's the number of pages in that file. Add up all the pages for all the files, and that's the number of pages for the book. Then as you read through the book, the number of Unicode characters in the current file is divided by the number of pages in the file to get the number of Unicode characters per page.
Actually, that is all described Adobe's little book EPUB Best Practices, which I downloaded from the Adobe site some time ago. It's the section on 'Synthetic Page Numbers'.
So it is pretty artificial, and the font size is not taken into account at all. These are totally synthetic, virtual, (nearly useless?) page numbers.

electragician · 01-01-2011, 12:13 PM

Not arguing here, but just putting some thoughts out. It sounds to me like the "virtual" page numbers are the very best way to go.

All a page number really is, is a reference point. With the method you called out, Page 45 should be the same "section" of a book, on any device, with any screen size and with any font size. Any other method of enumerating "Pages" would give a variable page count, depending on device used and the font size used.

So, to my way of thinking, those pages numbers are far from useless... I'd call them extremely useful if reading on multiple devices. Goto page "45" would always take you to the same area.

kiwipippa · 01-01-2011, 12:58 PM

So do other readers do a similar thing to the kobo with page numbers? I find it really annoying, but I've got used to it now.

HarryT · 01-01-2011, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwipippa

So do other readers do a similar thing to the kobo with page numbers? I find it really annoying, but I've got used to it now.

All ePub devices which use ADE (ie, the majority of readers) use the same method of calculating "page numbers", yes.

The Amazon Kindle uses essentially the same method, but it uses a count of 128 characters rather than 1024, so it's a much finer-grained division. It calls them "locations" rather than "pages", but it's exactly the same idea.

kiwipippa · 01-01-2011, 02:12 PM

HarryT, I have just started your version of "The Barchester Chronicles" (which I see you have recently updated, including a tweak to the name). It is over 3,000 pages so I am going to see lots of those little page numbers while I'm reading that.

So far I'm enjoying it - great format and no errors! Must have taken you a while to do that one. Thanks for the work.

HarryT · 01-01-2011, 02:15 PM

Hope you enjoy it. It's been thoroughly proof-read, so if you do find even the tiniest error, I'd appreciate it if you'd let me know!

The Terminator · 01-01-2011, 02:21 PM

Is this a kobo book or a library book

HarryT · 01-01-2011, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE TERMINATOR

Is this a kobo book or a library book

All ePub books display page numbers the same way, regardless of whether they are bought commercially, borrowed from a library, or are created manually.

kiwipippa · 01-01-2011, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE TERMINATOR

Is this a kobo book or a library book

If you're talking about "The Barchester Chronicles" it's a mobile read book downloaded from the link at the top left of the page "E-Books".

The Terminator · 01-01-2011, 03:05 PM

The library books from BC library's do not adjust to the font sizes, usually it takes two page turns for it to register one

HarryT · 01-02-2011, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE TERMINATOR

The library books from BC library's do not adjust to the font sizes, usually it takes two page turns for it to register one

We've already said that ADE page numbers have nothing to do with "screens" on the reader. They are a count of 1024 characters in the compressed file.

EricDP · 07-29-2011, 08:43 PM

It's not just 1024 characters that determines pages in ePub. The publishers can embed page numbers to align with the printed version of the book. Many purchased and library books have tags in the code such as:

Code:

<a id="page4"></a>

These indicate the top of that page in the printed book. Unfortunately, the standard does not require the reading device to use these numbers. It just says:

Quote:

It is strongly recommended that Content Providers select this XML Preferred Vocabulary for their educational publications and for content that is highly structured.

Looking at a book that has these tags, ADE on my computer does not use them.

taming · 07-30-2011, 06:29 AM

On the Touch, you have the option of turning the side numbers off.

01-01-2011, 11:04 AM	#1
sark666 Connoisseur Posts: 51 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: colognesbook	How are page numbers determined? I don't have my kobo in front of me, but if I recall correctly, it would say for example page 40 of 240 regardless of the font size, when you'd think the font size would influence the total page count. Am I correct in this? And if so, is there a way of knowing how the kobo would determine the page count without currently having my kobo? ie. this paragraph would be considered to be on page 40 of 300 by the kobo.

01-01-2011, 12:13 PM	#4
electragician Member Posts: 11 Karma: 56 Join Date: Oct 2006 Device: Kobo WiFi, PC, CR-48 ChromeOS laptop	Not arguing here, but just putting some thoughts out. It sounds to me like the "virtual" page numbers are the very best way to go. All a page number really is, is a reference point. With the method you called out, Page 45 should be the same "section" of a book, on any device, with any screen size and with any font size. Any other method of enumerating "Pages" would give a variable page count, depending on device used and the font size used. So, to my way of thinking, those pages numbers are far from useless... I'd call them extremely useful if reading on multiple devices. Goto page "45" would always take you to the same area. Last edited by electragician; 01-01-2011 at 12:15 PM.

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01-01-2011, 11:30 AM	#2
Danger Evangelist Posts: 490 Karma: 1665031 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Vancouver Island, Nanaimo Device: K2 (retired), Kobo Touch (passed to the wife), KGlo, Galaxy TabPro	Apparently it's every 1024 characters. Wish there was a way to turn this off on the Kobo as the numbers that appear on the right side are basically useless, especially since they are listed on the bottom as well.

01-01-2011, 11:42 AM	#3
pholy Booklegger Posts: 1,801 Karma: 7999816 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Device: BeBook(1 & 2010), PEZ, PRS-505, Kobo BT, PRS-T1, Playbook, Kobo Touch	There's a thread for that... but I can't find it. So, from memory, it's something like this: For each file, divide the compressed size by 1024 and add 1 if there is a remainder. That's the number of pages in that file. Add up all the pages for all the files, and that's the number of pages for the book. Then as you read through the book, the number of Unicode characters in the current file is divided by the number of pages in the file to get the number of Unicode characters per page. Actually, that is all described Adobe's little book EPUB Best Practices, which I downloaded from the Adobe site some time ago. It's the section on 'Synthetic Page Numbers'. So it is pretty artificial, and the font size is not taken into account at all. These are totally synthetic, virtual, (nearly useless?) page numbers.

01-01-2011, 12:58 PM	#5
kiwipippa Fanatic Posts: 578 Karma: 613022 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: New Zealand Device: kobo glo, kobo touch (dead), kindle touch, android phone	So do other readers do a similar thing to the kobo with page numbers? I find it really annoying, but I've got used to it now.

01-01-2011, 02:12 PM	#7
kiwipippa Fanatic Posts: 578 Karma: 613022 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: New Zealand Device: kobo glo, kobo touch (dead), kindle touch, android phone	HarryT, I have just started your version of "The Barchester Chronicles" (which I see you have recently updated, including a tweak to the name). It is over 3,000 pages so I am going to see lots of those little page numbers while I'm reading that. So far I'm enjoying it - great format and no errors! Must have taken you a while to do that one. Thanks for the work.

01-01-2011, 02:15 PM	#8
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Hope you enjoy it. It's been thoroughly proof-read, so if you do find even the tiniest error, I'd appreciate it if you'd let me know!

01-01-2011, 02:21 PM	#9
The Terminator Retired Posts: 2,552 Karma: 37638420 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Vancouver Island Canada Device: Kobo Touch, Optimus One (2.3), Nexus 7 (4.2)	Is this a kobo book or a library book

01-01-2011, 03:05 PM	#12
The Terminator Retired Posts: 2,552 Karma: 37638420 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Vancouver Island Canada Device: Kobo Touch, Optimus One (2.3), Nexus 7 (4.2)	The library books from BC library's do not adjust to the font sizes, usually it takes two page turns for it to register one

07-30-2011, 06:29 AM	#15
taming Trying for calm & polite Posts: 4,012 Karma: 9455193 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mostly in Canada Device: kobo original, WiFI, Touch, Glo, and Aura	On the Touch, you have the option of turning the side numbers off.