Page numbers, AGAIN

orlincho · 07-27-2008, 01:26 AM

A week ago I've changed my mobile to a smart one (symbian) and installed a MobiReader on it just in case.

What a surprise when I see page numbers in PRC files. Numbers reflow as expected when changing font size.

Now do you see any obstacles for having such feature in cybook. Especially when they use "mobi" source code for their reader.

See attached screen captures from the phone

HarryT · 07-27-2008, 02:43 AM

This really shouldn't surprise you. All versions of the Mobi reader except the Gen3 display page numbers.

The problem is, they are useless for finding your place in a book. Try this little experiment:

1. Go to the start of the book.
2. Page forward a page at a time until you get to a recognisable page in the book (eg the start of a chapter). Make a note of the displayed page number.
3. Go back to the start of the book, do a "Goto Page" and enter the page number you noted.

Are you at the same place in the book that you were before? I think you'll find that you aren't! Jumping to a page number in a Mobi book takes you to a wildly different location from paging through it a page at a time, and therefore cannot be used to note pages that you'd like to return to. This inaccuracy of page numbers makes that effectively useless (IMHO) and I entirely understand why Bookeen made the decision not to display them.

bwaldron · 07-27-2008, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

The problem is, they are useless for finding your place in a book.

They are indeed, which is why the Cybook not having them (while my other devices do) doesn't bother me in the least.

Ortep · 07-27-2008, 04:20 PM

And of course there is this other 'little' problem even if page numbers themselves were acurate You make a note of an important part of your book. You remember it was on page 246. You go on reading and after a while you find it is a bit to dark and you increase the font size or change the font type (I do that all the time) When you want to go back to the 246 you'll end up in a totally different part of the book.

Sparrow · 07-27-2008, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ortep

And of course there is this other 'little' problem even if page numbers themselves were acurate You make a note of an important part of your book. You remember it was on page 246. You go on reading and after a while you find it is a bit to dark and you increase the font size or change the font type (I do that all the time) When you want to go back to the 246 you'll end up in a totally different part of the book.

Yes, if you change fonts mid-read, it'd be no better or worse than what we have now.

But, if you don't change fonts while reading a book (I never do), it would be an improvement over what we have now.

bwaldron · 07-27-2008, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparrow

But, if you don't change fonts while reading a book (I never do), it would be an improvement over what we have now.

They would be -- if they worked. Which they don't in Mobipocket Reader on any platform that I have used it on. Since they don't, I'm fine with the progress bar alone.

tompe · 07-27-2008, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwaldron

They would be -- if they worked. Which they don't in Mobipocket Reader on any platform that I have used it on. Since they don't, I'm fine with the progress bar alone.

Why is the progress bar working do you think? When reading short stories in html format (or prc) it is not accurate at all.

FBReader has working page number.

Also what is needed most is not page number for accurate referencing but some measurement that can be used to accuately indicate how much of the total lengt of the work you have read,

Nate the great · 07-27-2008, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

Why is the progress bar working do you think? When reading short stories in html format (or prc) it is not accurate at all.

FBReader has working page number.

Also what is needed most is not page number for accurate referencing but some measurement that can be used to accuately indicate how much of the total lengt of the work you have read,

Except I'm pretty sure FBReader's page numbe refers to a specific amount of text, not however much is on screen.

A lot of its behavior is based on its arbitrary page size, and I've found that very annoying.

tompe · 07-27-2008, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate the great

Except I'm pretty sure FBReader's page numbe refers to a specific amount of text, not however much is on screen.

A lot of its behavior is based on its arbitrary page size, and I've found that very annoying.

Yes and that is why it is working. Maybe we shoud call it "progress number" and not "page number" to avoid confusion.

bwaldron · 07-27-2008, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

Why is the progress bar working do you think? When reading short stories in html format (or prc) it is not accurate at all.

FBReader has working page number.

Also what is needed most is not page number for accurate referencing but some measurement that can be used to accuately indicate how much of the total lengt of the work you have read,

Oh, I'm not arguing that a working "page" number system wouldn't be useful, but that the one in the current Mobipocket Readers is not any better than the rough estimate provided by the progress bar. At least with the progress bar, there isn't the illusion of specificity that the broken page numbers provide.

HarryT · 07-28-2008, 03:21 AM

Perhaps the "answer" is to do what the Kindle does, which is to display a "number" which isn't related to "pages", but simply to a position in the file. IIRC, the Kindle numbers in units of 128 bytes.

KLausPetersen · 07-28-2008, 05:45 AM

If Pagenumbers don't work, why does it have to be a progress "bar".
You can't go to the exact location in a text with just a bar without searching quite a bit.

Why can't it be a percentage number instead ?
e.g. 23,57 %

The device could just count all the letters of a text and then calculate the percentage for the first letter of a page.
Then the font size wouldn't matter very much with this method.

If rounded to 2 digits after the decimal point you could exactly differ between 10.000 pages. Even if you are using a very large font size you would be only a few pages of mark.

Jellby · 07-28-2008, 06:25 AM

To give a bit more information, it could say something like:

23,57% of ~357 pp.

Where the percentage is calculated byte-wise or character-wise, or whatever. And the total number of pages is calculated according to the amount of text shown in the current page (so, it would change even with every page turn).

Ortep · 07-28-2008, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KLausPetersen

Why can't it be a percentage number instead ?
e.g. 23,57 %

I totally agree, it was something I proposed a while ago. But most people who want page numbers seem to think that it is not good enough.

I can imagine that you cannot simply count the number of bytes divided by something for positioning in the file. That will give you a problem when there are pictures in the book. It will give you things like 1..2..3..10234..10235. Of course you can program around it, but I rather have that the concentrate on searching in the library, a one button bookmark and programmable buttons so I can assign buttons to the funtion that I like.

I couln'd care less about pagenumbers, I never use them, the bar is good for me.

JSWolf · 07-28-2008, 08:57 AM

Look, you bought a device that has a reader on it that is known to have issues with page numbers. Get over it. The chances of Mobipocket fixing page numbers in your Gen3's lifetime is not going to happen.

If page numbers really mean that much to you, then go get a Sony Reader.

07-27-2008, 01:26 AM	#1
orlincho Enthusiast Posts: 19 Karma: 10 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bulgaria Device: Gen3(brick)/NOOK/NOKIA E52	Page numbers, AGAIN A week ago I've changed my mobile to a smart one (symbian) and installed a MobiReader on it just in case. What a surprise when I see page numbers in PRC files. Numbers reflow as expected when changing font size. Now do you see any obstacles for having such feature in cybook. Especially when they use "mobi" source code for their reader. See attached screen captures from the phone Attached Thumbnails

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07-27-2008, 02:43 AM	#2
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	This really shouldn't surprise you. All versions of the Mobi reader except the Gen3 display page numbers. The problem is, they are useless for finding your place in a book. Try this little experiment: 1. Go to the start of the book. 2. Page forward a page at a time until you get to a recognisable page in the book (eg the start of a chapter). Make a note of the displayed page number. 3. Go back to the start of the book, do a "Goto Page" and enter the page number you noted. Are you at the same place in the book that you were before? I think you'll find that you aren't! Jumping to a page number in a Mobi book takes you to a wildly different location from paging through it a page at a time, and therefore cannot be used to note pages that you'd like to return to. This inaccuracy of page numbers makes that effectively useless (IMHO) and I entirely understand why Bookeen made the decision not to display them.

07-27-2008, 04:20 PM	#4
Ortep Fanatic Posts: 527 Karma: 470 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Netherlands Device: Kindle Oasis	And of course there is this other 'little' problem even if page numbers themselves were acurate You make a note of an important part of your book. You remember it was on page 246. You go on reading and after a while you find it is a bit to dark and you increase the font size or change the font type (I do that all the time) When you want to go back to the 246 you'll end up in a totally different part of the book.

07-28-2008, 03:21 AM	#11
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Perhaps the "answer" is to do what the Kindle does, which is to display a "number" which isn't related to "pages", but simply to a position in the file. IIRC, the Kindle numbers in units of 128 bytes.

07-28-2008, 05:45 AM	#12
KLausPetersen Connoisseur Posts: 51 Karma: 514 Join Date: Mar 2008 Device: Bookeen Cybook	If Pagenumbers don't work, why does it have to be a progress "bar". You can't go to the exact location in a text with just a bar without searching quite a bit. Why can't it be a percentage number instead ? e.g. 23,57 % The device could just count all the letters of a text and then calculate the percentage for the first letter of a page. Then the font size wouldn't matter very much with this method. If rounded to 2 digits after the decimal point you could exactly differ between 10.000 pages. Even if you are using a very large font size you would be only a few pages of mark.

07-28-2008, 06:25 AM	#13
Jellby frumious Bandersnatch Posts: 7,542 Karma: 19001583 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Spaniard in Sweden Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura	To give a bit more information, it could say something like: 23,57% of ~357 pp. Where the percentage is calculated byte-wise or character-wise, or whatever. And the total number of pages is calculated according to the amount of text shown in the current page (so, it would change even with every page turn).

07-28-2008, 08:57 AM	#15
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 78,930 Karma: 143098300 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Look, you bought a device that has a reader on it that is known to have issues with page numbers. Get over it. The chances of Mobipocket fixing page numbers in your Gen3's lifetime is not going to happen. If page numbers really mean that much to you, then go get a Sony Reader.

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