Amazon: If we released Kindle sales numbers, it would only hurt us

[SensualPoet]

Originally Posted by leebase

"In your mind" -- is kind of the point. In "my mind", Amazon is dominating the ebook business. But "our mind" isn't the same thing as "factually". I'd like to know the numbers -- to know HOW MUCH Amazon is leading by. I don't watch football and think "well, my team clearly is winning" -- I look at the SCORE.

That's nice, but it's none of your business -- it is proprietary info of Amazon and its owners (aka shareholders). If you are so terribly curious, go to Forrester or IDC or any other reputable tracking service and buy their reports on the industry. You'll get an approximation which will verify Amazon's Kindle outsells all other ereaders combined. That ought to be "factually" enough. Geez, even unemployment figures are guesses ... no one has the exact numbers.

And, for crying out loud, virtually no sales numbers of specific products are released by any company ever -- for the exact same competitive reasons Amazon protects its sales figures. You may get aggregate figures, but "x" sales of poruct Y in market Z is simply not going to be revealed an no one ought to expect them to do so.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by SensualPoet

That's nice, but it's none of your business -- it is proprietary info of Amazon and its owners (aka shareholders). If you are .

I quite agree. Amazon doesn't owe me entertainment. Then again, I don't owe Amazon publicity. I refuse to give any credence to their sales press releases until they actualy give numbers.

You are right that companies can buy competitive information from the likes of Forrester, so really the sales numbers aren't that secret to begin with.

Lee

[SensualPoet]

Originally Posted by greencat

If you are a business owner or author depending on Amazon - you could be unemployed tomorrow with no rights or pay off. I couldn't sleep with that.

It would be an egregious miscarriage of law if you could claim employment status with Amazon when, in fact, you are a vendor. Your vendor rules are whatever you and Amazon agree to in advance -- including termination or change clauses. Sign contracts and do business with companies and under terms that allow you to sleep at night. Go elsewhere otherwise -- unlike governments, you are not forced to have a business relationship with Amazon, Google or anyone else in the private sector.

[bminata]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

Some authors and people involved in publishing think Amazon has too much power. As a consumer, I'm a big fan.

Yeah, part of the Kindle's appeal is not just the hardware itself, but its integration with Amazon and its other apps and programs. Simply focusing on the hardware misses the big picture.

Right-on, daddy-o!

Sorry, I couldn't help it...

Yeah.. over the years Amazon has been of great service to me. Helped me get books that otherwise weren't available to me, and saved me lots of $$$ too. Been their customer since the very beginning, and still a happy customer till today.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by greencat

Amazon sets a minimum price of 99c although others like Smashwords let you list for free.

? There are plenty of free books on Amazon.
I believe Smashwords also have a minimum price fore non-free books.

[greencat]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

? There are plenty of free books on Amazon.
I believe Smashwords also have a minimum price fore non-free books.

Self publishers cannot set a price of zero on Amazon though.

[greencat]

Originally Posted by SensualPoet

It would be an egregious miscarriage of law if you could claim employment status with Amazon when, in fact, you are a vendor. Your vendor rules are whatever you and Amazon agree to in advance -- including termination or change clauses. Sign contracts and do business with companies and under terms that allow you to sleep at night. Go elsewhere otherwise -- unlike governments, you are not forced to have a business relationship with Amazon, Google or anyone else in the private sector.

Perhaps my previous post was poorly worded. For some, Amazon's contracts effectively mean they could be put out of business or lose their main source of income without notice. I think Amazon's growing dominance does present a problem for self-published authors and other small businesses because of this.

Personally I have a solution that works for me and I'm happy to work with them.

[BearMountainBooks]

Releasing numbers means they then have numbers to beat--it becomes immediately clear if sales slow. Releasing numbers give competitors a target--if Amazon sells 10, the competitors strive to sell 20, even if they have to cheat.

It's all part of marketing and Apple and Amazon both do it well.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

? There are plenty of free books on Amazon.
I believe Smashwords also have a minimum price fore non-free books.

Yes, Smashwords has a minimum and yes, you cannot give your book away on Amazon for free.

Personally, it's my opinion that Amazon has done more to help authors than any publisher/vendor/entity in eons. I'm not going to fuss that I can't give my book away...

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by greencat

Perhaps my previous post was poorly worded. For some, Amazon's contracts effectively mean they could be put out of business or lose their main source of income without notice. I think Amazon's growing dominance does present a problem for self-published authors and other small businesses because of this.

Personally I have a solution that works for me and I'm happy to work with them.

At this point in time, Amazon's dominance is not a problem for authors. In fact, some of us wouldn't be published without Amazon's very effective and efficient ability to garner sales/eyeballs. That is not to say that someday they may change the rules, but the rules in any business are ever-changing. It's always a race to get to the top of the hill--or at least maintain your position on the ledge on the way.

[Redcard]

I don't see why people whine about this. Amazon is a publicly traded company. They've always mentioned the Kindle sales in their annual reports.

You'd be amazed how they game the system and react in real time to sales trends, volumes , products, etc. This answer they've given lines up with precisely how they do business.

[crich70]

I haven't read all the postings, but I do think that it might also be a case of wanting to avoid confusion as well. I mean say they total up their sales 4 times a year and in the last quarter year they sold fewer kindles than in the quarter before that. There might be reasons that are beyond their control such as the plants in China having had problems with a supplier, but all the casual viewer of the figures would see is that fewer units were sold in the last quarter of 2010. It wouldn't be a matter of declining interest in the units, but without a long winded explanation of why fewer were sold others (both competitors and potential customers) might get the wrong idea about why such a drop happened.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by Redcard

I don't see why people whine about this. Amazon is a publicly traded company. They've always mentioned the Kindle sales in their annual reports.

Not really, they do a lot to obscure the numbers. Analysts make guesses based off of various sources, but only Amazon truly knows how well the devices and ebooks are selling.

Originally Posted by Redcard

You'd be amazed how they game the system and react in real time to sales trends, volumes , products, etc.

I wouldn't. IIRC both Dell and Microsoft got caught playing around with sales figures to make their business look much smoother than it really is.

Amazon is engaging in similar games, albeit in a legal fashion. It's just frustrating for both investors and the perpetually curious.

[BearMountainBooks]

If there was a way I could start this much conversation, I think I'd post things every quarter to my blog about how my "The Sedona O'Hala Series" is my BEST SELLING product ever! And I could even come up with statements like, "In the last two days, it sold more copies than in any two day period prior!"

But somehow, I think you have to be Amazon or J.K. Rowling for anyone to notice or care. OR....maybe it's just that Amazon is traded as a public company? I doubt it...

I worked at Dell and Compaq and other companies--both were accused of "channel stuffing" at various times. So numbers can be..."assumed" "massaged" and "enabled" to say *almost* whatever the stock holders want to hear. It can work for several quarters, but eventually, those little twists and turns catch up with companies unless they are somehow able to really move merchandise unexpectedly...

[OtterBooks]

I quite agree. Amazon doesn't owe me entertainment. Then again, I don't owe Amazon publicity. I refuse to give any credence to their sales press releases until they actualy give numbers.

I also find sales numbers entertaining.

Does Amazon do anything more than make the claim that the Kindle is their bestselling item? Personally I am skeptical of this claim. I demand to see the sales figures for Twilight and the Cuisinart Brew Central Coffee Maker.