Are there any studies PROVING that DRM works?

[jeffcobb]

Originally Posted by Psykhe;1154252

Also, "got it the day it comes out [B

if not before[/B]"? I am calling BS on that (bolded) one.

I guess we travel in different circles then. Books may not be in the same category as games, movies, TV and recorded music but in general, if something is popular/anticipated enough, its out there. The casual surfer can sometimes find TV shows that are still weeks away from air-dates available on the net. Some movies are available only after the DVD is issued whereas others are available as soon as the movie is distributed to the theaters (and I am not talking about cams or anything dodgy like that) and some are actually available before they hit the theater. For games and software I cannot speak b/c in my world (FOSS) all games/software are free and available instantly if not before (due to beta testing, etc).

So sorry, you are working under a false assumption...pretty much anything can be had at any time (within reason) if you know where to look.

[Freeshadow]

Psykhe just go out and buy a copy of the "Infinite Dungeons" addon for the game Newerwinter Nights

You can't? Ah yes I forgot to mention. it was an online only sale protected by authorising trough connect-before-gamestart which isnt sold anymore due to atari's idiocy (regardless of the still existing ammounts of fans for the game) thanks to the wonderful DRM you also simply can't get a used copy.
In contrary to that I'm still able to purchase Lokigames releases altough the company is gone.

things like this happened, happen and will keep on happening in software, music and now due to the short-sightedness of publishing houses in the book industry too.

DRM means only "the stuff will become unuseable in the long term."
Have you ever asked yourself, why the "archive" spec part of PDF excludes every possible way of encrypting the file? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDF/A

[jeffcobb]

Originally Posted by Freeshadow

In contrary to that I'm still able to purchase Lokigames releases altough the company is gone.

Off subject for sure but...for me, a lot of Loki games never go out of style and seem to have a lot of "replayability" if that is a word....

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by Psykhe

There isn't really (so far) any serious piracy community to release ebooks.

You must be joking.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by Psykhe

Too bad - because their is the only case which matters.

That pretty much sums up the value of this conversation.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

That pretty much sums up the value of this conversation.

I wouldn't waste a lot of time on this clown. He is either astroturfing or has a warped version of reality and is living in a fool's paradise. Then again, he may live under bridges.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Psykhe

There isn't really (so far) any serious piracy community to release ebooks.

He means that they've all got good senses of humor and are prone to telling lots of jokes; you just can't call them a "serious" community.

[Ken Maltby]

It appears to me that media piracy for ebooks, has not become the criminal commercial
operation that you see in some parts of the world for DVDs and CDs. In that sense it is
not a "serious" piracy community. Perhaps the poster should have used "Professional"
Piracy Community, as I don't see how the E-book Pirate gets paid.

Luck;
Ken

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Ken Maltby

It appears to me that media piracy for ebooks, has not become the criminal commercial operation that you see in some parts of the world for DVDs and CDs.

Ebook piracy has almost never been about profit... mostly, it's been about misguided philanthropy (on the givers' part) or raw acquisitiveness (on the takers' part). It is based on a social order of pure anarchy, what the individual wants, the individual gets, and thereby transcends the concerns of monetary value. It is counted under the abstract currency of coup, and the winner has essentially the same prestige as the winner of a game of tag.

Put another way, ebook pirates are children, play-pirates, seeking to be king of the playground, and acting as if theirs is the only playground on Earth.

DRM isn't just about the play-pirates, as those who legitimately buy ebooks also circumvent DRM in order to format-shift their property. DRM is a tool, and when used properly, it can be a very effective one... but it is easy to misuse and abuse. The question of whether it "works" is much like the question of whether cars can move you efficiently, and trying to decide the question based on how many pedestrian fatalities they cause. It's just not that simple.

[Freeshadow]

methinks, that since in some cases book piracy in general is quite work intensive (as scan, proofread and format whole book series), it is no field for digital money-making
even in times of significantly weaker PC's (e.g. 586-class) when the conversion of a 1CD audio album from wav to mp3 needed multiple hours this was still faster than semi-manual digitizing of just one book, so misguided philantropy is, IMO a good guess about motives.

[Fat Abe]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

DRM is a tool, and when used properly, it can be a very effective one... but it is easy to misuse and abuse. The question of whether it "works" is much like the question of whether cars can move you efficiently, and trying to decide the question based on how many pedestrian fatalities they cause. It's just not that simple.

You lost me on this analogy. DRM is like a Toll booth. You can legitimately pay or you can put slugs into a coin basket, and avoid paying for the use of a bridge, tunnel or road.

With DRM, you use a magic key-breaking program. If you pay for an ebook, and exploit a crack, this gives you the right to use it on multiple devices, without having to pay a toll for each subsequent use. If you don't pay for an ebook, i.e., you get it from a friend, the internet, or a lending library, you don't even have to pay the toll once.

I will venture to say that DRM does work on specific platforms, namely anything tied to iTunes and iBooks. Without a crack, all readers are forced to either legitimately buy the book, or steal it from an alternative source. Since most iPad customers are not savvy enough to figure out how to burglarize their ebooks by the second method, I would hypothesize that iBooks has the strongest rate of compliance of any ebook distribution system, thus proving the DRM can work.

[Worldwalker]

Originally Posted by Fat Abe

If you pay for an ebook, and exploit a crack, this gives you the right to use it on multiple devices, without having to pay a toll for each subsequent use.

And why SHOULDN'T you be able to use it in the future without paying the publisher again for what you already have?

If you buy a pbook, you can read it in the living room, read it in the car, and read it at the beach without having to pay the publisher multiple times. And many times you're not paying as much for the pbook as you are for the ebook. Only publishers and their shills think it's unreasonable for people to get the same utility out of an ebook as out of a pbook.

[MrPLD]

Originally Posted by Fat Abe

would hypothesize that iBooks has the strongest rate of compliance of any ebook distribution system, thus proving the DRM can work.

But this is under a limited analysis environment. If you extend it to device transition or DRM-server termination you'll find that your clients are now without access to the media they purchased and thus proving DRM can not work.

To spin an analogy, it's like saying you can survive underwater because you have oxygen tanks and breathing apparatus.

Paul.

[MrPLD]

I've said this before but I think it needs repeating again;

For publishers/media-creators DRM can work very well. If gives the power to force people to repurchase all the media yet again when a format transition occurs.

For consumers, DRM ultimately will result in a lock out.

As a consumer, it's your own responsibility to make the choice of avoiding DRM if you wish to maintain perpetual uninhibited access to what you have purchased.

DRM is a useful tool for publishers that offers no upside for consumers.
DRM is not about restricting pirates. DRM is about controlling customers.

Paul.

(EDIT: Notice that most of the time these days you are buying a licence of the media, not a copy )

[Fat Abe]

Originally Posted by MrPLD

I've said this before but I think it needs repeating again;

For publishers/media-creators DRM can work very well. If gives the power to force people to repurchase all the media yet again when a format transition occurs.

This happens with or without DRM. In music, we have the cycle of wax cylinders, 78's, LP's, mag tape, cassettes, 8-track, CD's, MP3's, SACD, DVD Audio, and BD audio. In movies, the cycle included 8-16-35 mm, Betamax, VHS, CED, Laserdisc, Dvd, RCA Divx, HD-DVD and BD. The content publishers are always repackaging old wine in new bottles.

But you are right about DRM for ebooks. It makes the product "perishable" in the sense that once a new format arrives or the old ereaders die, the consumer may have an unusable/orphan product, unless he or she converts the ebook to a DRM-free format.