The Best CLASSIC novel of ALL TIME!

[drofgnal]

War and Peace gets my vote. I'd give a close second to Catcher in the Rye.

[TallMomof2]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Are you using it to teach her French, or were you reading an English translation?

I'd always be wary of regarding a translation as a "classic" myself. How much of the original author are you reading, and how much of the translator? Many of Verne's novels were virtually re-written in English translation, and bear only the most superficial resemblance to the French originals.

We received a paperback book with minuscule type and I promptly downloaded your beautifully formatted version in English for the Kindle. It appears to be the same as the print version but I haven't checked every single word. The goals in teaching this particular book include: vocabulary, geography (we keep track of the progress on a map), history (there is a tie-in lesson in world history for that time period), and of course literature subjects (point of view, personification, English versus American spellings, literary word usage, etc). My daughter is required to answer questions after each chapter and write essays at different points in the book. Adventure books are more palatable for 12 year old children even if they are translated from the original language.

Since my 12 year old has just begun first year French, it would be interesting for her to reread Around the World in Eighty Days in French several years from now. Of course, that's assuming she sticks with French. Myself, I only speak English so I am learning along with her.

[SameOldStory]

I'm sorry to say that the first version sounded better to me also. It creates a more evocative image.

Using the words "as always" in place of "as usual" would give the first version a more somber tenor, but the second version is too abrupt.

As the Lady says >
"Methinks we can chalk these differences up to personal tastes."


"The second was approved by the author ...."

Although Solzhenitsyn did read English, the question becomes "Was he an able translator?" God help us if I tried to translate anything from French, even though I still retain a little of what I studied.

[Joe Minton]

I prefer short declarative sentences and implied meanings.

Joe

[SameOldStory]

We all have our preferences. If we didn't life would be very boring with only one book, one flavor, etc.

By the way, you helped make the difference in translations much clearer to me. Although I still say that it is better to read a fair translation than to not read any translation because it may not be the best available.

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by HarryT

No, that's not what I said; please read my post more carefully. What I was asking was whether, on the basis of reading a translation, you were in a position to judge whether or not the original (which you have not read) was or was not a classic.

I agree with you in that reading a translation is not the best means to judge the original. But after reading the translation, you could say that the translation is a classic My "handwaving" impression is that a translation will rarely be "better" that the original, so if you like a translation is very likely that you'd have liked the original too.

[jeffcobb]

While I cannot speak to book translations, we watch a lot of anime here at Casa Cobb and sometimes part of that is characters singing a song of some type...while the original Japanese version is probably very good, the English version is stilted, awkward and sometimes downright confusing/funny/bizarre.

Thus I can see where reading something in the authors' original language results in a better read than reading a translation...

[Falcao]

If by "classic" you meant Greek or Roman, I found the Odyssey mesmerizing. If not, I have read 1984 like 10 times at least.

[Latinandgreek]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I'll give you a practical example. I can read both Latin and ancient Greek. There is no translation of either Homer's "Iliad" or Virgil's "Aeneid" which can even begin to give you the "feeling" of the original Greek or Latin hexameter verse. It just cannot be translated. No English translation of the Iliad can put you in a position to judge what the Greek original is actually like. You can translate the "story", but the result is not the same at all.

I've read all three both in the original languages and in translation (English, Croatian). None of the translations that I've read have even come close to the original. I find this not only with Latin / Greek literature, but with translations of books in living languages that I've read and compared to the original text. Shades of meaning and poetic devices are often lost in the translation. I've worked as a translator professionally (all bureaucratic work, I'm afraid) and in translating you find yourself having to make many compromises to the integrity of the text just to get a basic meaning of it across to the readers.

This is especially true of literary texts. Aristophanes is TERRIBLE (I find) in translation; in Greek he really is hilarious. Jokes are notoriously hard to translate. Plautus is also really funny in Latin, where I have found that translations of him sound rather stuffy.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Are you using it to teach her French, or were you reading an English translation?

I'd always be wary of regarding a translation as a "classic" myself. How much of the original author are you reading, and how much of the translator? Many of Verne's novels were virtually re-written in English translation, and bear only the most superficial resemblance to the French originals.

But the translation itself might be the classic, right? Makes me wonder if there are any books for which the translation is better than the original. King James bible?

[Salgueiros]

If there is any book that made me feel better for having read it is The Republic by Plato. I was and still am fascinated by the sheer elegance and talent of Socrates speech and reasoning. Even though i disagree with some of the propositions Socrates puts forth i do think it is a book that has not lost its relevance. This book alone makes me optimist about the capacity and power of reason and knowledge.

I also find the Iliad a fantastic work. Cruel, violent as humans unfortunately usually are, and so epic.

For a more recent work, I do think Les Miserables of Victor Hugo or D. Quijote de La Mancha true candidates for a title. They are the kind of books that you never forget and you can relate to in so many ways. Timeless and beautiful. True treasures of our common western culture.

[Fbone]

It has been said that the ancient languages are more advanced and developed than modern ones. We've retrogressed. More words isn't necessarily better.

I believe that's one reason why the Bible is easily misunderstood or not understood at all. Low quality translations and supplemental publications.

Ancient Greek has four different words for "love" all with distinct differences.

[delphidb96]

Atlas Shrugged.

Distant #2? Oliver Twist.



No need for further posts to this thread because the "definitive ruling" has been made.

Derek

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by delphidb96

Atlas Shrugged.

Distant #2? Oliver Twist.



No need for further posts to this thread because the "definitive ruling" has been made.

Derek

Is that "The Rule of 42?"

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by HarryT

.I'll give you a practical example. I can read both Latin and ancient Greek. There is no translation of either Homer's "Iliad" or Virgil's "Aeneid" which can even begin to give you the "feeling" of the original Greek or Latin hexameter verse. It just cannot be translated. No English translation of the Iliad can put you in a position to judge what the Greek original is actually like. You can translate the "story", but the result is not the same at all.

What do you think of the Staley Lombardo translations?