Are there any studies PROVING that DRM works?

[TheJohnNewton]

Originally Posted by SensualPoet

Lastly DRM on ebooks doesn't get in the way of enjoying your purchase and its not something that will be consumed dozens or hundreds of times like a favourite tune is. So DRM is also not put to the test as often. Sure, some people worry they might be inconvenienced by DRM someday, but, as a practical matter, almost no one is.

Really? You've never heard anyone ask "will that ebook work on my device?" You've never heard anyone ask "Can I use library books on my Kindle?" You've never heard anyone ask "How can I load all the ebooks I purchased in the past on my new device?" Only for them to be told, no sorry, DRM prevents that.

To answer the OP, I don't know of any independent studies and would think it would be near impossible to design a study to prove this one way or the other. Do you really need a study though or can you just look at it logically?

Personally I do think DRM stops some casual copying. This would include people who don't know better but try to copy something and can't so they either realize "hey maybe I'm not supposed to do this" or simply don't pursue it further as well as people who know it's possible to remove DRM but don't want to bother with it. The average consumer will purchase a copy if it's quick and easy to do so. It's the path of least resistance that wins. Make the ebook available, price it well, promote it well, that's about the best you can do to minimize piracy and maximize sales.

People who want to pirate something will simply remove the DRM or scan a paper copy. The only way to stop them would be with via law enforcement. These people are not interested in buying books.

Do you still need a study?

[WT Sharpe]

DRM is a non-issue for me until the day my Kindle stops working and Amazon goes belly up. On that day I will be the proud owner of hundreds of dollars worth of books I can't read.

[MrPLD]

Originally Posted by TheJohnNewton

It's the path of least resistance that wins.

That pretty much sums it all up. Thanks.

[timezone]

There is nothing inherently wrong with DRM. Until we can create physical objects from a printer (This is happening) then the physical world is safe for the most part for the content owners.

The problem lies in fair use and type of ownership. If I can't freely move my copy from one device to another and create a backup. Then I am mad. If I can't choose which DRM or how many I want on my reader then I am mad. If I can lose my library because of a change in DRM on the next rev or a new device then I am mad. If a publisher gets in a fight with a distributor and removes their books then I know with Mobipocket I lost the book if I move to a new device. Very unfair because I thought I paid for the book and not rented it.

Where are the innovators and engineers? We need a DRM that offers protection to the copyright owner but retains fair use to the customer.


Of course there are the few brave ones like O'Reilly that do sell non DRM books. Ask them for the study.

[amoroso]

Originally Posted by TheJohnNewton

To answer the OP, I don't know of any independent studies and would think it would be near impossible to design a study to prove this one way or the other. Do you really need a study though or can you just look at it logically?

I explained the rationale for this thread here. I'm not in favor of DRM and as a cosnumer avoid it whenever possible.

[EowynCarter]

There is nothing inherently wrong with DRM

There are lots of "wrong" with drm.

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...71#post1117771

That kind of situation. Ouch! And we're going to see a lots of that...

Where are the innovators and engineers? We need a DRM that offers protection to the copyright owner but retains fair use to the customer.

I'm going to quote Joe Abercondie there, because he have the right of it.

The only effective way to combat it is to provide people with a higher quality service than pirates do, more easily available and at a price that seems reasonable. Then I think most will be happy to pay.

That's the best DRM ever Get to work to make the peaple want to buy your product.

[SensualPoet]

Originally Posted by MrPLD

Are you referring to recording to tape? Because CD-burners didn't really become mainstream until the mid-late 90's, especially not to consumers.

As for sharing across the net, it wasn't until the late 90's that mp3's became a viable option

Yes the late 1990s experience is exactly what I was referring to. Making and sharing copies of favourites tunes and whole albums was trivially easy using everyday computers. This is not true of ebooks.

Originally Posted by MrPLD

I think the level where people get upset is when they can't even make a backup for their own purposes or transpose the media to another device..

But almost everyone who buys ebooks is on a Windows or Mac computer and these are well served by Adobe ADE ePub where buyers are free to make archival backups and turn on and off access to up to six different devices. DRM doesn't get in the way in normal use. Vendors typically also allow for "permanent" storage of purchased content (assuming the vendor stays in business). But your archival copies are still safe so long as Adobe doesn't disappear.

And if you puchase from Amazon -- which has a large portion of the English-speaking sales -- you don't need a computer and again can authorize up to six devices. Again, Amazon backs up your content but so can you if you want to.

DVDs and Blu-ray also use DRM to prevent rampant unauthorised copying by the general consumer. There are few complaints about that because it also doesn't get in the way of normal usage.

Originally Posted by TheJohnNewton

Really? You've never heard anyone ask "will that ebook work on my device?" You've never heard anyone ask "Can I use library books on my Kindle?" You've never heard anyone ask "How can I load all the ebooks I purchased in the past on my new device?" Only for them to be told, no sorry, DRM prevents that.

That's not the point. The point is how does DRM affect the products I am buying? If I buy a Kindle, and I can't borrow library books, it's because I don't have a library book player -- that's not a flaw in DRM. I need to obtain the right tool for the job -- an Adobe ADE equipped reader.

And given more book stores are turning into "platforms" -- Kindle and Kobo being the most aggressive -- yes, well, you probably CAN play that ebook in a multitude of devices: Windows PC, Mac, Blackberry, iPhone, iPtouch, iPad, Android phone, Android tablet ... and e-reader capable of Kindle or Adobe ADE ePub.

Again -- for the mainstream user, DRM does not get in the way. If it truly did, e-books would not be growing in popularity as they have in the past 18 months. There's your survey data.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by amoroso

Are there any independent studies proving with sound data and methodologies that ebook copy protection via DRM is effective?

No, there are not.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It "works" in the sense that many publishers (and, it has to be said, authors too) would not publish eBooks at all without DRM. Therefore DRM results in a wider range of eBooks being published.

But as far as the customers go, DRM is a flop. 100%. Too many people have gotten ripped off due to DRM then have not. Example. When Amazon dropped eBooks and people needed to redownload the PDF they purchased they were screwed with a file they could not use because the DRM prevented it.

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by TheJohnNewton

The average consumer will purchase a copy if it's quick and easy to do so. It's the path of least resistance that wins. Make the ebook available, price it well, promote it well, that's about the best you can do to minimize piracy and maximize sales.

Completely agree.

Remove geographic restrictions as well and many more potential customers will buy the ebook, not have to go through hoops or eventually simply download a copy.

[SensualPoet]

Originally Posted by sabredog

Remove geographic restrictions as well and many more potential customers will buy the ebook, not have to go through hoops or eventually simply download a copy.

I commiserate -- as I am trying to get Louise Penny's wonderful mystery novels sold in her native Canada as e-books when they are sold here in every conceivable format EXCEPT e-books.

But the geo-restriction is tied to the terms of the rights negotiated. This is a learning curve throughout the publishing chain: paper and digital rights about to go hand-in-hand and revert to the player willing to take them instead of simply being blocked. As an industry, this is a temporary glitch.

I am really far more interested in getting backlist titles of merchandisable content onto e-shelves -- like Erle Stanley Gardner who wrote well over 150 books, half of them in his legendary, iconic Perry Mason series, and whose e-book presence is ZERO.

[Worldwalker]

Originally Posted by SensualPoet

...like Erle Stanley Gardner who wrote well over 150 books, half of them in his legendary, iconic Perry Mason series, and whose e-book presence is ZERO.

Whose legitimate ebook presence is zero. I'd bet if you checked the darknet, you'd find plenty of Perry Mason books, just like you can find plenty of Harry Potter books.

And that's why DRM doesn't do what the publishers claim it does. It doesn't stop people who want pirated books from getting them. It never will, because in order to be used, a book has to be displayed, and even if they block screenshots, there are cameras. All DRM does is drive otherwise legitimate readers into the ranks of the pirates in order to get what they want (or, in all too many cases, what they're paying for). I don't think publishers are too stupid to know this. The other thing they know, however, the part they won't tell people, is that DRM enforces device lock-in. If you buy a Kindle, you have to buy more Kindles; you can't go buy a Sony instead, at least not unless you want to throw out (or de-DRM) all your books. And that is exactly what Amazon wants. That's what every device vendor with an ebook store wants. DRM isn't about preventing piracy; it's obvious that doesn't work. It's about device lock-in, and that's not a good thing for us readers.

As for the "6 device" thing ... someone please confirm either way on this: I've heard that it's 6 devices EVER -- that is, if you authorize a Kindle 1, Kindle 2 ... Kindle 6 (when that day comes), and de-authorize all 6 of them, you still have to throw your books away because you won't be able to authorize a Kindle 7, as you've used up your 6 authorizations. That is, de-authorizing a device doesn't "put one back in the box". Is this the case?

[EowynCarter]

But almost everyone who buys ebooks is on a Windows or Mac computer and these are well served by Adobe ADE ePub where buyers are free to make archival backups and turn on and off access to up to six different devices. DRM doesn't get in the way in normal use.

Oh, really, i almost got screwed by adobe.
First time download, woops, i cliked "open with", reather than "download". So the file is download, but linux is unable to open the book. Let's re-download. Ok, done.
So time later, I sort my e-books. "Hey where is that book anyway ?". Search, search, can't find the book. Ok, let's download it. But I do that same idiot idiot mistake. "Nah, can't open you file". I tried to re-download the proper way, and there "Sorry, maximum number of download exeded".
Luckily, I fond the book somewhere in my hard drive in the end. Else, I would have to ask support, and al the mess...

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

Whose legitimate ebook presence is zero. I'd bet if you checked the darknet, you'd find plenty of Perry Mason books, just like you can find plenty of Harry Potter books.

Just did a quick check, just for the fun of it, and there were 23 of his Perry Mason books available in either PDB or TXT format on just one sharing site.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

Whose legitimate ebook presence is zero. I'd bet if you checked the darknet, you'd find plenty of Perry Mason books, just like you can find plenty of Harry Potter books.

And that's why DRM doesn't do what the publishers claim it does. It doesn't stop people who want pirated books from getting them. It never will, because in order to be used, a book has to be displayed, and even if they block screenshots, there are cameras. All DRM does is drive otherwise legitimate readers into the ranks of the pirates in order to get what they want (or, in all too many cases, what they're paying for). I don't think publishers are too stupid to know this. The other thing they know, however, the part they won't tell people, is that DRM enforces device lock-in. If you buy a Kindle, you have to buy more Kindles; you can't go buy a Sony instead, at least not unless you want to throw out (or de-DRM) all your books. And that is exactly what Amazon wants. That's what every device vendor with an ebook store wants. DRM isn't about preventing piracy; it's obvious that doesn't work. It's about device lock-in, and that's not a good thing for us readers.

As for the "6 device" thing ... someone please confirm either way on this: I've heard that it's 6 devices EVER -- that is, if you authorize a Kindle 1, Kindle 2 ... Kindle 6 (when that day comes), and de-authorize all 6 of them, you still have to throw your books away because you won't be able to authorize a Kindle 7, as you've used up your 6 authorizations. That is, de-authorizing a device doesn't "put one back in the box". Is this the case?

I would eventually buy all the Mason books if they were available, and I'd bet I'm not alone.