Epub is Not Universal So Stop the BS - Page 11

HarryT · 08-27-2010, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eBookNewbie123

There is a reason why ePub is better.
I like ePub.
1. I can edit the HTML file anyway I like and then use Calibre to make the ePub which shows exactly as how the HTML was. I use some CSS on the Heading and the text.
2. If I break my current eBook Reader, I can move onto another one and it will show the same.
3. If later one I decide to myself, I do not want my headers centred, I just edit the stylesheet and they are all right aligned.
4. I can make the entire size of the text anything I want it to be.
All these ePubs will work the same on all ePub devices, because they all run ADE.
5. ePub is an open standard, which means, I can write a book, make it into an ePub for free to sell.

Most of your point are valid, but it's perhaps worth noting that not quite all ePub readers are based on ADE. The excellent "iBooks" reader for the iPad is an ePub (and PDF) reader, but it doesn't use ADE.

Dark123 · 08-27-2010, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Most of your point are valid, but it's perhaps worth noting that not quite all ePub readers are based on ADE. The excellent "iBooks" reader for the iPad is an ePub (and PDF) reader, but it doesn't use ADE.

It's an open format, which is based on XML. If it flows the standard, any ePub I create will work the same on all.

kjk · 08-27-2010, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eBookNewbie123

It's an open format, which is based on XML. If it flows the standard, any ePub I create will work the same on all.

Yes, but...
1) Any ePub can also have a proprietary DRM, which means it won't work the same on all, while still being a standard open format.

2) Every ePub reader today has quirks about what it can and can't display from the "standard"...iBooks being just one example that doesn't display the same as some other ePub readers.

dmikov · 08-27-2010, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjk

2) Every ePub reader today has quirks about what it can and can't display from the "standard"...iBooks being just one example that doesn't display the same as some other ePub readers.

So is HTML which is quite dependent on browser implementation, but this doesn't stop everybody from calling it a standard. I personally would've preferred other format to be universal (I like fb2), but it doesn't change the fact that epub looks like a standard format for now.

kjk · 08-27-2010, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmikov

So is HTML which is quite dependent on browser implementation, but this doesn't stop everybody from calling it a standard. I personally would've preferred other format to be universal (I like fb2), but it doesn't change the fact that epub looks like a standard format for now.

Oh, I'm not arguing that ePub isn't shaping up to be a standard format...I just don't think its anywhere near standard enough yet :P (at least for my needs)

RichyRich · 08-27-2010, 02:28 PM

By Amazon adding epub support to their Kindle, it would allow people to borrow ebooks from their local library, thus negating one of the big draws of the Nook and allow access to epub based books and basically expand the user base because of the added format support. That does not mean Amazon has to start selling epub ebooks, but with the additional format support, even people who would primarily use it for epub books would more than likely use the Amazon store at times. I generally like the mobi format over the epub format but I wouldn't consider buying a Kindle until it has epub support.

Dark123 · 08-27-2010, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjk

Oh, I'm not arguing that ePub isn't shaping up to be a standard format...I just don't think its anywhere near standard enough yet :P (at least for my needs)

ePub is just a zip file which contains xml files. It supports CSS as well, so you can do anything you want to the text and the image as well.
ePub is by far the best since it's based on XML.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichyRich

By Amazon adding epub support to their Kindle, it would allow people to borrow ebooks from their local library, thus negating one of the big draws of the Nook and allow access to epub based books and basically expand the user base because of the added format support. That does not mean Amazon has to start selling epub ebooks, but with the additional format support, even people who would primarily use it for epub books would more than likely use the Amazon store at times. I generally like the mobi format over the epub format but I wouldn't consider buying a Kindle until it has epub support.

That is a mute point. Have you actually looked at the libraries which provide eBooks? They offer 1 eBook as available. So only 1 person can read the eBook at any time.

JSWolf · 08-27-2010, 02:48 PM

The Kindle's lack of support for libarary eBooks is a big drawback (IMHO). A lot of people do use the library to borrow eBooks.

Before we go and announce the number of K3's in the wild, how many are buying a K3 to replace a K1 or K2 and how many are giving the K1 or K2 to someone else or are planning on selling the older unit? If the K3 is bought as a replacement unit and the older unit is not being sold or given away, then that doesn't really count as any more Kindle's in the wild.

Now as to format. ePub is more of a standard then any other eBook format. I have a Sony Reader and if I want, I can buy a nook or a Kobo or a Pocketbook and my eBooks will still be compatible. For people who do know know about DRM/stripping DRM, the Kindle is a locked in device. You are locked into Amazon and their DRM. You cannot get library eBooks, you cannot get books not sold by Amazon (for eBooks with DRM). And as for the Kindle app for the iPad/iPhone, it has wider margins then even iBooks. That does get to be annoying to see so much wasted screen space.

With ePub, I have more control over how it looks then I do with Mobipocket. And lastly, ePub (and Adept if it has to have DRM) is the standard outside the USA.

JSWolf · 08-27-2010, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eBookNewbie123

That is a mute point. Have you actually looked at the libraries which provide eBooks? They offer 1 eBook as available. So only 1 person can read the eBook at any time.

So you put the book on reserve, wait for it, get it, and then read it. Simple eh?

carld · 08-27-2010, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I have a Sony Reader and if I want, I can buy a nook or a Kobo or a Pocketbook and my eBooks will still be compatible.

But are the different DRM schemes compatible?

taming · 08-27-2010, 03:54 PM

I'm not sure about the nook, which uses a credit card number as part of its ADE scheme and isn't available to people where I live, but ADE is ADE for Sony, Kobo, Borders, Overdrive (US and Canadian library standard)and various book selling sites.

JSWolf · 08-27-2010, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taming

I'm not sure about the nook, which uses a credit card number as part of its ADE scheme and isn't available to people where I live, but ADE is ADE for Sony, Kobo, Borders, Overdrive (US and Canadian library standard)and various book selling sites.

While the nook supports a different DRM scheme for ePub, it also supports the standard Adept scheme. So yes, it is compatible.

Also Bookeen's Gen3 and Opus And BeBook, LBook, Astack and other similar clones are also compatible as well as others that I've not mentioned.

So really, I have a lot more choices as to what reader I want if I don't go Amazon where as Amazon, I only have two choices. The K3 or the DXG.

cfrizz · 08-27-2010, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

While the nook supports a different DRM scheme for ePub, it also supports the standard Adept scheme. So yes, it is compatible..

While you can probably transfer your books from your Sony to the Nook, You CANNOT transfers B&N bought books over to your Sony.

rblover · 08-27-2010, 06:10 PM

I don't mind being locked into a store with a selection of more than 2.43 million books....1.8 million public domain, and 630,000 non public domain. Hell will freeze over before I can finish reading all of them. So...what do I need other books from other sources for...espcially when most of the books from the other sources will be the same books available from Amazon, anyway? Once every few years there may be a new, hot, Harry Potter type best seller from only one publishing house, which won't be available from Amazon. So what? I can either: not read it-as I read few new best sellers, anyway-or I can buy a paper version, and read that, or I can borrow a paper version, or other ereader, from a friend who has it, or I can wait a couple of years until Amazon does have a copy of it available. Why should I base my entire purchasing/reading habits upon what might happen with regards to one book which may be available once in a blue moon? Neither e-pub capability, or touch screens, holds any fascination for me.

AGB · 08-27-2010, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfrizz

While you can probably transfer your books from your Sony to the Nook, You CANNOT transfers B&N bought books over to your Sony.

A good reason reason to not buy books from B&N as well as Amazon (including the Kindles).
Closed systems sucks, whether it's drm-induced or the whole ecosystem.

08-27-2010, 02:28 PM	#156
RichyRich Connoisseur Posts: 72 Karma: 511678 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: EZ Reader Pocket Pro	By Amazon adding epub support to their Kindle, it would allow people to borrow ebooks from their local library, thus negating one of the big draws of the Nook and allow access to epub based books and basically expand the user base because of the added format support. That does not mean Amazon has to start selling epub ebooks, but with the additional format support, even people who would primarily use it for epub books would more than likely use the Amazon store at times. I generally like the mobi format over the epub format but I wouldn't consider buying a Kindle until it has epub support. Last edited by RichyRich; 08-27-2010 at 02:31 PM.

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08-27-2010, 02:48 PM	#158
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,796 Karma: 146391129 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	The Kindle's lack of support for libarary eBooks is a big drawback (IMHO). A lot of people do use the library to borrow eBooks. Before we go and announce the number of K3's in the wild, how many are buying a K3 to replace a K1 or K2 and how many are giving the K1 or K2 to someone else or are planning on selling the older unit? If the K3 is bought as a replacement unit and the older unit is not being sold or given away, then that doesn't really count as any more Kindle's in the wild. Now as to format. ePub is more of a standard then any other eBook format. I have a Sony Reader and if I want, I can buy a nook or a Kobo or a Pocketbook and my eBooks will still be compatible. For people who do know know about DRM/stripping DRM, the Kindle is a locked in device. You are locked into Amazon and their DRM. You cannot get library eBooks, you cannot get books not sold by Amazon (for eBooks with DRM). And as for the Kindle app for the iPad/iPhone, it has wider margins then even iBooks. That does get to be annoying to see so much wasted screen space. With ePub, I have more control over how it looks then I do with Mobipocket. And lastly, ePub (and Adept if it has to have DRM) is the standard outside the USA.

08-27-2010, 03:54 PM	#161
taming Trying for calm & polite Posts: 4,012 Karma: 9455193 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mostly in Canada Device: kobo original, WiFI, Touch, Glo, and Aura	I'm not sure about the nook, which uses a credit card number as part of its ADE scheme and isn't available to people where I live, but ADE is ADE for Sony, Kobo, Borders, Overdrive (US and Canadian library standard)and various book selling sites.

08-27-2010, 06:10 PM	#164
rblover Connoisseur Posts: 50 Karma: 26 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: none as yet	I don't mind being locked into a store with a selection of more than 2.43 million books....1.8 million public domain, and 630,000 non public domain. Hell will freeze over before I can finish reading all of them. So...what do I need other books from other sources for...espcially when most of the books from the other sources will be the same books available from Amazon, anyway? Once every few years there may be a new, hot, Harry Potter type best seller from only one publishing house, which won't be available from Amazon. So what? I can either: not read it-as I read few new best sellers, anyway-or I can buy a paper version, and read that, or I can borrow a paper version, or other ereader, from a friend who has it, or I can wait a couple of years until Amazon does have a copy of it available. Why should I base my entire purchasing/reading habits upon what might happen with regards to one book which may be available once in a blue moon? Neither e-pub capability, or touch screens, holds any fascination for me.