Epub is Not Universal So Stop the BS - Page 6

GlenBarrington · 08-23-2010, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarel

Found this, liked it. Kinda tired of hearing people go, yeah, the Kindle's nice, but because there's no EPUB, it's destined to failure.

http://mikecane.tumblr.com/post/9372...so-stop-the-bs

One of the top reasons I hear made for an epub preference is that it allows the customer to shop around. But why do that, now, thanks to Agency pricing? Save for Random House books (and indie books), most ebooks from major publishers are the same price no matter where you go. And if it's an ebook, chances are that Amazon will have it. So not much reason to shop around, huh?

Another reason that people say that they prefer epub is that have the ability to move to a different device and take their books with them should they want to in the future. But that remains to be seen... the only epub books that are cross-device compatible are Sony books to the Nook, and not vice versa. Ibooks can only be read on Apple devices. There's no guarantee that a newer device or new anything from Adobe will make that crossing possible, considering that while many vendors use Epub, most put their own flavor of DRM on top of it, negating any "open" claim to it's name.

What do you think?

It's "Universal-er" than anything else out there.

Everything you write is true. But we (the buying public) NEED a single, commercially viable file format as a part of the eBook reading infrastructure. And so far, Adobe is the only software publisher that seems interested. So, my current reader supports Epub, and my next one will too.

EowynCarter · 08-23-2010, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

In my own case, because very often Amazon's prices are a fraction of what sites like Waterstones charge, and because they have a much better selection.

Prise, well, question of principle. I will prefer the web site that proposes me the right format, or the web site that don't geo-restrict me, even if more expensive.
And most of times, ePub have a better formating.
Sparing myself the bother of bypassing the geo-restrictions, of fixing the conversion mess, is with the extra money.

Selection, well, I have yet to find a book I want that is on amazon and not somewhere else. And remember, amazon's selection in europe isn't the US one...

HarryT · 08-23-2010, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

And remember, amazon's selection in europe isn't the US one...

I'm well aware of that. I do live in Europe

.

GeoffC · 08-23-2010, 07:52 AM

even if we are on "the edge"

aagstn · 08-23-2010, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlenBarrington

It's "Universal-er" than anything else out there.

Everything you write is true. But we (the buying public) NEED a single, commercially viable file format as a part of the eBook reading infrastructure. And so far, Adobe is the only software publisher that seems interested. So, my current reader supports Epub, and my next one will too.

Exactly. My public library only supports ePub therefore so does my current reader and anyone I buy in the future. The Kindle and mobipocket are of no interest to me and neither is a reader that limits the places I can buy books and check out books.

Bittybye · 08-23-2010, 09:29 AM

I like the ePub because of the 3 readers I'm interested in (and the one I have) all support ePub. And since I either have my own documents converted to epub or public domain I can transfer from my Kobo, to whatever ereader I decided to get at a future date.

I've never had anything to do with the Kindle, but I won' buy books that I can't transfer a book to another device. And since I don't know, nor care to know how to strip DRM, ePub is the only logical choice for me.

HarryT · 08-23-2010, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bittybye

I've never had anything to do with the Kindle, but I won' buy books that I can't transfer a book to another device. And since I don't know, nor care to know how to strip DRM, ePub is the only logical choice for me.

The logical choice is to learn how to remove DRM (it's really very easy) and to immediately remove it from any book that you buy. That gives you the freedom to easily transfer the book to any device you might buy in the future.

It's very hard to predict the future. Five years ago I would have said (in fact I did say!) that Mobipocket had the market sewn up, and that no matter what device I might be reading on in 5 years time I would be confident that it would support Mobipocket. But now ePub (which didn't exist 5 years ago) is the dominant format. It would be a brave man indeed who could say for certain what the dominant eBook format is going to be in 2020, for example.

The important thing is to have all your books in formats that can easily be converted to other formats. Both ePub and Amazon (Mobipocket) books satisfy that criterion once one has removed the DRM from them.

suecsi · 08-23-2010, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffC

even if we are on "the edge"

Sweetpea · 08-23-2010, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

Prise, well, question of principle. I will prefer the web site that proposes me the right format, or the web site that don't geo-restrict me, even if more expensive.
And most of times, ePub have a better formating.
Sparing myself the bother of bypassing the geo-restrictions, of fixing the conversion mess, is with the extra money.

Selection, well, I have yet to find a book I want that is on amazon and not somewhere else. And remember, amazon's selection in europe isn't the US one...

Well, that apparently depends on where you live. I can, by now, only go to either Amazon or Waterstones for my English language books. Both have the same price. Dutch books, I hardly read (even since I was 18, I primarily read English). And other stores increasingly don't want my money. Either I'm barred completely, or the selection is so small, it's not worth browsing anymore. Especially since some stores will only say you can't buy a book if you're trying to order it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bittybye

I've never had anything to do with the Kindle, but I won' buy books that I can't transfer a book to another device. And since I don't know, nor care to know how to strip DRM, ePub is the only logical choice for me.

The problem starts when you have 3 readers that just don't want to read DRM'd epub and probably never will read DRM'd epub. And no, there's no Kindle in our house until the Kindle 3 arrives. So, in that sense, epub is far from universal. Because if it was, all devices should be able to read it.

Actually, it's not epub that's the problem. It's DRM. I can read DRM-less epubs on those three readers. The same that I can read DRM-less mobipocket on my fourth (haven't checked the fifth yet...) Epub can be a good format to keep your books. It's easy to convert to other formats and it's open. It's the DRM that spoils everything.

Taesoo Kwon · 08-23-2010, 12:42 PM

There are many people living outside the united states where there is no kindle store or living in the US but their native language is not english. When they want to buy books written in their native language, then currently there is no other choices than ADE epubs.
(I hate DRMs but given the choices...).
Both Amazon and B&N uses custum DRMs for profits, but I personally think they are not competing in a proper way with smaller book chains.

Elfwreck · 08-23-2010, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Yes, it's convenient that not only do Amazon sell a good range of eBooks, but that their DRM mechanism is the easiest of all to remove.

I disagree; I think .lit is easiest to remove. ConvertLIT doesn't require installing a big (intimidating to non-coders) program and finding scripts, and it'll run from a flash drive.

However, Microsoft's ebook stores are much less popular than the others; the restriction to not only one OS but one browser for DRM'd downloads limits their sales. And .lit's not as easy to work with after conversion.

HarryT · 08-23-2010, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I disagree; I think .lit is easiest to remove. ConvertLIT doesn't require installing a big (intimidating to non-coders) program and finding scripts, and it'll run from a flash drive.

The program which removes DRM from a "Kindle for PC" app is a simple standalone executable program. It doesn't need any kind of run-time framework to support it, and is not a script. It too can be run from anywhere, since it requires no installation. I too have used "ConvertLIT" in the past, but, believe me, the Kindle one is much easier to use

.

Ben Thornton · 08-23-2010, 01:44 PM

I think perhaps that you are talking at cross-purposes about different mechanisms for removing kindle DRM, about which we can't me more explicit here!

HarryT · 08-23-2010, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

I think perhaps that you are talking at cross-purposes about different mechanisms for removing kindle DRM, about which we can't me more explicit here!

Yes, I believe you're right. There is the complicated Python script-based one, which one uses with a "real" Kindle, and then there's the dead simple executable one that one uses with "Kindle for PC". The latter really couldn't be any simpler to use.

bjones6416 · 08-23-2010, 02:09 PM

And just to throw in another point of view, here, my sister reads on an Aluratek Libre. It will handle both epub and mobi, but she converts all of her books to mobi because on the Libre, you can't use the multi-directional button to turn pages in an epub book -- you have to use the page turn buttons on the lower left, or the slider on the left. Mobi books allow the use of the multidirectional button as well, which can be accessed from the right side.

So there are multiple reasons that it's nice to be able to convert to the format we want on any particular day. I have both mobi and epub versions of all of my books -- I put the epub versions on the Sony and the mobi on the Kindle. I can put either on the Jetbook Lite, and I have some of both on there.

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08-23-2010, 07:52 AM	#79
GeoffC Chocolate Grasshopper ... Posts: 27,599 Karma: 20821184 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scotland Device: Muse HD , Cybook Gen3 , Pocketbook 302 (Black) , Nexus 10: wife has PW	even if we are on "the edge"

08-23-2010, 09:29 AM	#81
Bittybye Addict Posts: 262 Karma: 505124 Join Date: Dec 2009 Device: PRS-T2	I like the ePub because of the 3 readers I'm interested in (and the one I have) all support ePub. And since I either have my own documents converted to epub or public domain I can transfer from my Kobo, to whatever ereader I decided to get at a future date. I've never had anything to do with the Kindle, but I won' buy books that I can't transfer a book to another device. And since I don't know, nor care to know how to strip DRM, ePub is the only logical choice for me.

08-23-2010, 12:42 PM	#85
Taesoo Kwon Enthusiast Posts: 27 Karma: 163 Join Date: Nov 2008 Device: Kobo wifi	There are many people living outside the united states where there is no kindle store or living in the US but their native language is not english. When they want to buy books written in their native language, then currently there is no other choices than ADE epubs. (I hate DRMs but given the choices...). Both Amazon and B&N uses custum DRMs for profits, but I personally think they are not competing in a proper way with smaller book chains.

08-23-2010, 01:44 PM	#88
Ben Thornton Guru Posts: 900 Karma: 779635 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: UK Device: Kindle 3, iPad 2 (but not for e-books)	I think perhaps that you are talking at cross-purposes about different mechanisms for removing kindle DRM, about which we can't me more explicit here!

08-23-2010, 02:09 PM	#90
bjones6416 ↓↓ Skirt!! Earrings!! Posts: 3,394 Karma: 17432172 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Georgia, USA Device: Acer netbook, JetBook Lite, Sony PRS-300, Kindle 2, Kindle Fire	And just to throw in another point of view, here, my sister reads on an Aluratek Libre. It will handle both epub and mobi, but she converts all of her books to mobi because on the Libre, you can't use the multi-directional button to turn pages in an epub book -- you have to use the page turn buttons on the lower left, or the slider on the left. Mobi books allow the use of the multidirectional button as well, which can be accessed from the right side. So there are multiple reasons that it's nice to be able to convert to the format we want on any particular day. I have both mobi and epub versions of all of my books -- I put the epub versions on the Sony and the mobi on the Kindle. I can put either on the Jetbook Lite, and I have some of both on there.