Epub is Not Universal So Stop the BS

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by Crowl

The dismissive way that he labels the third groups as Sony/Others

The "other" group is quite large. And because of no DRM and multi formats available it's just as "frictionless" on the other ereaders as the kindle.

The library option cant be overlooked. Imagine never having to purchase a bestseller for the rest of your life. As I have discovered many libraries have extensive inventories.

It goes back to the question of 'where will you get your e-books?'

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Fbone

The "other" group is quite large. And because of no DRM and multi formats available it's just as "frictionless" on the other ereaders as the kindle.

It's perhaps easy to get a rather distorted view of the world-wide ebook market, living in the USA. Outside the US, Amazon really are a very minor player in the game, and the ePub format completely dominates.

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by Anarel

t's not open if there's drm on top of it that all epub reading devices have a different version of.

Apart from Barnes and Noble's own take on ePUB DRM, there are many stores that sell ADE DRM'ed ePUB. Almost all non Kindle ereaders support ADE.

You do not need to have store lock-in for any reason really.

All this, even for Kindle owners, goes out the window if they decide to liberate their purchases from DRM and use Calibre to transfer/convert.

Ultimately, the choice of ereader becomes purely personal. Which in my mind is the best outcome of all.

[SkyDream]

It seems to me that DRM is at the bottom (or top) of all.

Kill DRM () and it doesn't matter if it's ePub, PDF, AZW or whatever as you may convert them as you like.

Personally i prefer ePub because of libraries and the ability to switch between devices. ePub is common in europe and there are even shops who sell it without DRM.

Isn't there a Qt enhancement for Kindle which enables you to read ePub ?
I believe i've read something i the Kindle area.

[SkyDream]

Originally Posted by Anarel

Found this, liked it. Kinda tired of hearing people go, yeah, the Kindle's nice, but because there's no EPUB, it's destined to failure.

http://mikecane.tumblr.com/post/9372...so-stop-the-bs

What do you think?

He's missing the No-DRM ePub as sold by beam. No-DRM ePub will totally change what he's saying.

[AGB]

Kindle over here (EU) is non-existant. Epub is the standard and as such it is much better, more open.
Yes, I realise that with DRM on top of it (B&N or otherwise) it's not quite as open as non-drm'd files, but that's the same with MP4s/AAC: It's an open format, no matter if Apple have decided to implement their own flavour of DRM on top of it.

Besides, I jumped ship from Apple after twenty years on the platform, because I grew tired of the closed - and ever-closing - ecosystem which only grew worse as the iPod grew in popularity, forcing me to figure out more and more workarounds to be able to get the functionality I wanted and needed for work. I'm done with closed platforms and ecosystems.

Speaking of, just because Apple doesn't really support FLAC without a plethora of workarounds doesn't mean that FLAC isn't an open format, just like having Amazon/Kindle not supporting Epub doesn't make Epub less of an open format.

[Toxaris]

My main gripe with amazon is the simple fact that they only sell for Kindle. I don't care for the format, as long as I can read it on my reader. My reader can read a lot of formats, but no Kindle. Why? Because that format is a closed format and that makes it a vendor lock. The e-pubs with the 'normal' DRM can be read on *all* readers that support epub. Only the B&N epubs have a different DRM. So, not the e-pub format is flawed or non-universal, it is the DRM that is applied on it. I won't even start about Apple, which handles everything as if they invented it and then 'improved'. Let's say I have a different opinion.
At least I can *choose* to remove the DRM from the e-pubs (Apple excluded), I cannot do the same for Amazon e-books. Result, as long as Amazon does not sell e-pub with or without 'normal' DRM, no more sales from me.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Anarel

Found this, liked it. Kinda tired of hearing people go, yeah, the Kindle's nice, but because there's no EPUB, it's destined to failure.

http://mikecane.tumblr.com/post/9372...so-stop-the-bs

One of the top reasons I hear made for an epub preference is that it allows the customer to shop around. But why do that, now, thanks to Agency pricing? Save for Random House books (and indie books), most ebooks from major publishers are the same price no matter where you go. And if it's an ebook, chances are that Amazon will have it. So not much reason to shop around, huh?

Another reason that people say that they prefer epub is that have the ability to move to a different device and take their books with them should they want to in the future. But that remains to be seen... the only epub books that are cross-device compatible are Sony books to the Nook, and not vice versa. Ibooks can only be read on Apple devices. There's no guarantee that a newer device or new anything from Adobe will make that crossing possible, considering that while many vendors use Epub, most put their own flavor of DRM on top of it, negating any "open" claim to it's name.

What do you think?

If I did not already strip the DRM, I could by ePub with Adept DRM and take them with me from my Sony to say a nook or an Astak or a Pocketbook or even an iPad using the txtr app. So yes, there is the greatest interoperability with ePub/Adept then there is with any other format/DRM.

[hrickh]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It's perhaps easy to get a rather distorted view of the world-wide ebook market, living in the USA. Outside the US, Amazon really are a very minor player in the game, and the ePub format completely dominates.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is what it boils down to in a nutshell.

R.
==

[EowynCarter]

One of the top reasons I hear made for an epub preference is that it allows the customer to shop around. But why do that, now, thanks to Agency pricing?

Try getting something else than epub of pdf from the French publishers... The kindle might fit your needs, but it don't fit my owns. Because there are way to little books available as mobi in my language.
Yeah, you can de-drm and convert, the the one time I did this, it wasn't too brilliant.

Get a bit outside the US ePub IS the standard almost everywhere in the world.
At least our publisher and shops had some common sense to use the same format. Having amazon with a format, B&N with another, sony with yet another, oh the mess of it ! That situation shouldn't exist. They should get around a table and decide on a format and DRM once and for all.

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by Toxaris

At least I can *choose* to remove the DRM from the e-pubs (Apple excluded), I cannot do the same for Amazon e-books. Result, as long as Amazon does not sell e-pub with or without 'normal' DRM, no more sales from me.

Amazon does seem to be more proactive about DRM than the other vendors. They are the only supplier in an arms race with ebook DRM removal tools - constantly upgrading the DRM to prevent copying. However, most of the time you can buy a Kindle for PC ebook and strip the DRM.

Once an ebook is DRM-free, the distinction between MOBI and ePub is less significant. Calibre allows you to painlessly convert one to the other. There is no doubt that ePub is a better format than MOBI, but in practice the Kindle and (old) MobiPocket Reader software has advantages over the existing Adobe and B&N ePub reading software.

[SensualPoet]

Suppose Amazon decided to allow ePub without DRM on its devices -- just as it does PDF -- but doesn't sell any content in that format. Would that satisfy anyone? I am guessing that firmware update would be "trivial".

And suppose Amazon Kindle -- especially in finding a solution to give the Kindle access to Overdrive from public libraries -- offered a one-time license fee update ($5? $10?) which gave them a patched firmware that also supported DRM ePub through Adobe? But Amazon continued to sell only Kindle format books? Would that satisfy anyone?

Be careful what you ask for: how would the ePub only bookstores, and ePub only hardware devices fare with a Kindle with such capabilities?

[Elfwreck]

His post is flawed from the beginning.

There are currently three forms of ePub now:

1) ePub from Apple iBooks
2) ePub from Barnes & Noble
3) ePub from Sony/others (which includes public libraries)

No, there's ePub from Smashwords, Baen, Fictionwise multiformat, Feedbooks, Gutenberg, Mobileread, and dozens of small ebookstores, which work on every device that supports ePub. He's conflating the DRM with the filetype.

Without using a credit or debit card, I’ve been able to set up an Amazon Kindle Store account, get the Kindle for PC software, and download over a hundred Kindle book samples.

That cannot be done with any other eBookstore.

Without using a credit card or debit card, I've managed to set up both a Fictionwise & Smashwords account and download plenty of ebooks. (I don't think I've gotten more than a hundred samples from Smashwords, but that's because, by the time I found it, I was more careful with my time.)

I can understand the dominance of the big-6 publishers and their DRM-infected products, but that doesn't mean I have to take seriously any blogger who pretends the filetype, not the DRM, is the compatibility problem.

[EowynCarter]

Suppose Amazon decided to allow ePub without DRM on its devices -- just as it does PDF -- but doesn't sell any content in that format. Would that satisfy anyone? I am guessing that firmware update would be "trivial".

Well, nope.
Me maybe, as I can de-drm.
But if you take the avrage french guy :
He don't want to read in english. And want to read the last book from well knows authors. Avrage guy don't want to de-drm.
Right now, that means using a reader with adobe adept.

If Amazon want to have a part of the market in france anywhere near significant, they have two solutions :
- Make partnership with the publishers, sell the e-book with their own format, on amazon.fr. (Me myself is happy with having only one format, so no go for me).
- Add ePub functionality (with adobe drm), to kindle. (So they can sell kindle) and / or sell ePub (so they can sell books)

[carld]

Originally Posted by SensualPoet

Suppose Amazon decided to allow ePub without DRM on its devices -- just as it does PDF -- but doesn't sell any content in that format. Would that satisfy anyone? I am guessing that firmware update would be "trivial".

And suppose Amazon Kindle -- especially in finding a solution to give the Kindle access to Overdrive from public libraries -- offered a one-time license fee update ($5? $10?) which gave them a patched firmware that also supported DRM ePub through Adobe? But Amazon continued to sell only Kindle format books? Would that satisfy anyone?

Be careful what you ask for: how would the ePub only bookstores, and ePub only hardware devices fare with a Kindle with such capabilities?

Amazon already supports non-DRM ePub through conversion (and the results are just fine as far as I can tell), so I don't see them gaining much of anything for supporting non-DRM ePub directly on the device. It'd be a nice feature, but not a "must have" by any means.

However, I'd be happy to pay a one-time upgrade fee for access to overdrive library books. I don't actually care what format the books come in. If Amazon worked out something where they converted the ePub to AZW and reapplied the DRM that'd be just fine with me.