Vegetarian? - Page 21

disney_mommy · 06-27-2009, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Anytime a decision is made for "moral, ethical, humanitarian or religious reasons," you automatically throw yourself on the side of "right", as you see it.

I said the same thing myself several posts back. If the idea or choice makes sense to us, it is right to us. That's why we choose it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Yes, we all have the right to make our own dietary decisions......and the right to 'look askance' at those whose decisions differ from ours.

I'm confused - are you agreeing with me or implying that I look askance at those that disagree with my opinion? I think I've been clear that I don't do that.

Laz116 · 06-27-2009, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Anytime a decision is made for "moral, ethical, humanitarian or religious reasons," you automatically throw yourself on the side of "right", as you see it.

I'm not sure whether you're just saying that moral decisions always tend to take the high ground (otherwise they wouldn't be moral decisions, fx for me eating meat is not a moral decision, but becoming a vegetarian would be).

Or you are arguing for somekind of moral relativism?

If it's the latter then I strongly disagree. If morality is nothing more than my own subjective perspective, then in effect you rule out every discussion of morality whatsoever. The consequenses of doing that are severe. How can we fx condemn atrocities if it's only morally wrong from our own perspective.

nekokami · 06-27-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Anytime a decision is made for "moral, ethical, humanitarian or religious reasons," you automatically throw yourself on the side of "right", as you see it.

Well, that doesn't necessarily mean that we believe our decisions are right for everyone. If the only way I could be a vegetarian meant importing food from a distance, using excess fuel, or by denying someone else what they need to eat, then I'd make a different decision. On a much simpler level, if I'm eating at someone else's house, I don't ask if the soup was made with chicken broth. I think being polite as a guest has some moral weight, too. I don't know what anyone else's circumstances are, so I don't claim to know what's "right" for them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Yes, we all have the right to make our own dietary decisions......and the right to 'look askance' at those whose decisions differ from ours.

I agree with the first point, but I'm not so sure about the second. If we "look askance" for caring reasons, e.g. worrying about someone else's health (or their karma, or whatever), then I suppose I would agree, but otherwise, I'd go with the "first remove the log from thine own eye" principle.

I just think it makes more sense to present our reasons for our own decisions as clearly and non-confrontationally as possible, and trust other people to do their best to do the right thing in their own situations.

desertgrandma · 06-27-2009, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disney_mommy

Hans, if you'd read through the last few pages, you would see that we are not having a struggle between right and wrong.

This is the only thing my post was referring to. This entire thread is a compilation of views on what is right or wrong.

As seen by each posters views.

I have no intention of getting into a 'moral relativism' discussion with anyone. sheesh.

Laz116 · 06-27-2009, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

I have no intention of getting into a 'moral relativism' discussion with anyone. sheesh.

But you could at least tell me how your post should be understood, since I'm, as I told you, not sure?

desertgrandma · 06-27-2009, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz116

But you could at least tell me how your post should be understood, since I'm, as I told you, not sure?

I just did.

Laz116 · 06-27-2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

I just did.

Ah I see... It's just views.

RickyMaveety · 06-27-2009, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HansTWN

A message to all vegetarians: please do not turn this into a struggle between right and wrong. Live and let live! Be a vegan or vegetarian, but don't try to take away what we need. Humans are adapted to eating meat. Just look at your teeth. Plant eating animals have several stomachs. You don't fault a lion for killing a gazelle, why blame humans for doing what nature intended them to do? For me a life without meat would be so miserable, I cannot even imagine it. When did human culture start to develop? When they started eating meat. Plant eating animals spend their whole day in search for food and eating (since it takes a lot more food to get the same nourishment from plants). So when early hominids started to eat meat they had free time. They started thinking, their brains developed.

Killing animals for food is not inhumane, it is necessary for our health and survival. Important is that animals are being raised in the right conditions and treated well.

With you (in part -- lots of errors in your argument) until your second to the last sentence. Eating meat is most profoundly NOT necessary for human health or survival. It is possible for complete vegans to live a perfectly healthy and long life. I know, I have a LOT of vegan friends and they are doing quite well.

I personally tried (very hard, I might add) to go vegetarian (as a preliminary step towards being vegan), and for me personally, it was just way too much work. I am a fast food junkie, and when I tried to stop, my eating habits were already so incredibly bad that I ended up with more health problems than I can count.

Humans stopped needing to spend the entire day gathering food when they developed agriculture. That's actually when human "culture" began to develop and more time was available. Agriculture preceded the domestication of food animals by several thousand years.

I am not a vegetarian. I would like to be, I'm just no good at it. However, I have seen enough slaughter houses to know that current modern animal "farming" processes are NOT humane. For those reasons there are certain types of meat that I refuse to eat (no lamb, and no veal). However, I don't even look askance at someone who orders veal ... I just don't make a habit out of eating with that person in the future if it can possibly be avoided (I mean, why go out with people who depress you?).

When I go out with my vegan friends, I do it understanding that we're not going anywhere I will really enjoy my meal. However, I will enjoy their company, and that's why I'm going out with them .... not for the food. If push comes to shove, I will order a bottle of wine and drink enough that I know longer care that I am jonesing for a cheeseburger.

Becoming a vegetarian or a vegan is a commitment, and I admire the people who are able to make that commitment. Just like I admire the people who make (and keep) the commitment to marriage, also something I just can't do (it's just not in my nature).

Bilbo1967 · 06-27-2009, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

With you (in part -- lots of errors in your argument)

Well, good to see that you're not being judgemental about this!

vivaldirules · 06-27-2009, 02:53 PM

I just want to know what's for lunch!

ShortNCuddlyAm · 06-27-2009, 02:54 PM

Having a veggie cheesy pasta bake with quorn fillets for dinner

RickyMaveety · 06-27-2009, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

Well, good to see that you're not being judgemental about this!

Hey!! If there are errors in the argument, you KNOW I'm going to point them out. I can't really help myself there.

disney_mommy · 06-27-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

This is the only thing my post was referring to. This entire thread is a compilation of views on what is right or wrong.

As seen by each posters views.

I have no intention of getting into a 'moral relativism' discussion with anyone. sheesh.

You're right, we are just saying what our opinions of what and wrong are. I was just saying that we aren't "struggling between right and wrong." That implies an argument between sides. My point was that we are not arguing, just discussing.

griffonwing · 06-27-2009, 06:07 PM

Funny thing.

Back around page 7-8 of this thread, Zelda asked for my Coconut Rum Carrot Cake recipe. On page 9, I gave the recipe. She hasn't made a post since.

I think Zelda is drunk off her arse and gorging herself with carrot cake!!

Laz116 · 06-27-2009, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShortNCuddlyAm

Having a veggie cheesy pasta bake with quorn fillets for dinner

My dabbling in meat replacements has only gone as far as to Chili con tofu and, Quorn Lasagna. Neither were succesful.

View Poll Results: Are you a vegetarian? (Now with more options!)
I am not a vegetarian by any means. More BACON!	63	42.57%
I eat meat but I don't do so with every meal.	38	25.68%
I am not a vegetarian but I don't eat meat more than about three times a week.	11	7.43%
I am not a vegetarian but I don't eat beef or pork. Fish and poultry are the only meats I eat.	3	2.03%
I am not a strict vegetarian but I genearlly avoid meat and eat it only about once a week.	7	4.73%
I am a vegetarian but I do eat eggs or dairy products.	27	18.24%
I am a vegan and don't eat any meat, eggs, or dairy products.	6	4.05%
I avoid buying products made from animals (e.g., leather).	13	8.78%
I avoid meat for reasons of religion, conscience, or self-discipline.	12	8.11%
I avoid meat for health reasons.	3	2.03%
I avoid meat for both health reasons and reasons of religion, conscience, or self-discipline.	10	6.76%
I am a vegetarian and don't eat any meat, eggs, fish, or any other form of non-vege items, but dairy products like milk, butter, cheese are ok.	4	2.70%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 148. You may not vote on this poll

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06-27-2009, 02:53 PM	#310
vivaldirules When's Doughnut Day? Posts: 10,059 Karma: 13675475 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Houston, TX, US Device: Sony PRS-505, iPad	I just want to know what's for lunch!

06-27-2009, 02:54 PM	#311
ShortNCuddlyAm WWHALD Posts: 7,879 Karma: 337114 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Mitcham, Surrey, UK Device: iPad. Selling my silver 505 here	Having a veggie cheesy pasta bake with quorn fillets for dinner

06-27-2009, 06:07 PM	#314
griffonwing Suave Swabby, Savvy? Posts: 1,602 Karma: 520350 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Harrison, ARrrr, USA - southern Ozark mountains Device: Slate Blue PEZ (Astak Pocket Pro), CVSCX-9300 Quad-band watch phone	Funny thing. Back around page 7-8 of this thread, Zelda asked for my Coconut Rum Carrot Cake recipe. On page 9, I gave the recipe. She hasn't made a post since. I think Zelda is drunk off her arse and gorging herself with carrot cake!!