Amazon's own ebook format

[Katsunami]

The difference between HarryT's and your scenario is this.

HarryT and his friend are two different and independent people. To Amazon, you and your wife are one person, as (I assume) all Kindles are registered to one account.

You (your account) has the rights to put a book on 6 (IIRC?) devices that belong to the same person or household, and are all in the same account. Therefore you're doing nothing worng.

Technically, you *could* put your Kindle, your wife's, your mother's and those of three friends accross the globe into one account. Technically, that would be cheating, making misuse of the account. However, there is no way for Amazon to check for this scenario, apart from coming to your house to check and see if all the Kindles are actually there.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by sirmaru

Are we in technical violation of the copyright rules or would we have to be careful that one finished entirely before the next person starts? That is usually the case anyway.

Amazon is happy for more than one person to read the same ebook simultaneously, provided the copies are on Kindle devices registered to the account with the ebook in it.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by HarryT

But when you loan the book to your friend, you and he can't read it simultaneously; when you give your brother a shirt, you and he can't wear it at the same time. With the e book you are creating another copy of the book and giving that copy to your friend - both you and your friend now have the book. That's the fundamental difference. Two people now have the book when previously only one person did.

I loan my ebooks with a spare Kindle. That way, DRM remains intact.

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by sirmaru

I purchased ELEVEN eBooks from Amazon in 2013 of which 9 have been completed and I am currently reading two.

So.. You've read 9 books throughout 2013, right? And you're retired?

I have no idea (read too lazy) what I purchased in 2013 from Amazon, but I completed 83 (non-fiction and fiction) books. And you still don't see the reason folks use calibre and alf?

I think any further conversations with you are a waste of my time (I should stop reading MR and get back to reading ebooks).

[sirmaru]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

So.. You've read 9 books throughout 2013, right? And you're retired?

I have no idea (read too lazy) what I purchased in 2013 from Amazon, but I completed 83 (non-fiction and fiction) books. And you still don't see the reason folks use calibre and alf?

I think any further conversations with you are a waste of my time (I should stop reading MR and get back to reading ebooks).

Here is my daily time use being retired:

1. Sleep = 9 hours
2. Personal hygiene = 2 hours
3. Read eBooks = 1 hour
4. Watch TV = 2 hours
5. Play Civilization 5 = 1 hour
6. Walk and care for my dog = 1 hour
7. Manage my investments = 2 hours
8. Speak on telephone = 1 hour
9. Eat meals = 2 hours
10. Read and write in MR Forum = 2 hours.
11. Read and write in other chat rooms and non-MR Forums = 1 hour

By the way, I used to play Civ 5 for 2 hours and only access MR for 1 hour prior to 3 months ago. I really need Steam to come out with a new video game similar to Civ 5.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by sirmaru

3. Read eBooks = 1 hour

Clearly not long enough

In 2013 I read 202 ebooks and bought 283 ebooks. I tried for several years to manage without calibre, but I'm so glad I have it now!

[sirmaru]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Clearly not long enough

In 2013 I read 202 ebooks and bought 283 ebooks. I tried for several years to manage without calibre, but I'm so glad I have it now!

Try Civilization V from the Steam site and you may find yourself playing more of that game than reading eBooks. I used to LIVE 5 hours per day in that game. Now its 3 years old and its old hat for me.

If you don't see me posting here for a long time, it means I finally got a new game for 2014.

[barryem]

Originally Posted by hardcastle

As easy as it is to detect illegal serial number metadata, it is equally as easy to remove it

Amazon does include a serial number in the metadata and I agree with you that that isn't very important to the pirates since it's so easily removed. But there are watermarking techniques that aren't easy to remove.

Some years ago I was in a forum sponsored by Audible.com and one of their developers talked about watermarking and I, smartalec that I am, replied that I'm sure it's very easy to get around. I knew how to convert Audible files to MP3 which automatically stripped the metadata and re-compressed the audio. My assumption that the conversion from the compression method they were then using (level 2) would get rid of the watermark.

He sent me 2 short audiobooks, one watermarked to me and one not. He asked me to do my best and send them back and he would tell me which was which. I converted them and sent in the copies, thinking I was very smart, and he identified them correctly. 50/50 chance so we did it again. After the third time I decided he was right.

On that third time I first created wave files by playing the book into a recording device and recording it to wave. I then made an MP3 from the wave file. On one of the two files, but not both, I made a WMA file from the wave and then converted that to MP3. He got it right again.

The point is that they don't need metadata to identify the purchaser.

I have no idea whether Amazon uses watermarking in their music, although it would surprise me to find out they don't. I'm not even sure if Audible.com still uses it. This was way before they were bought by Amazon.

The war between publishers and pirates is a complex one. I'm not really sure, though, that it's very important to the future of the publishing business. Publishers are in trouble because paper books and music on CD's are making way to newer technology. I doubt the pirates have much real effect on that.

The pirates do have a very positive effect, I think, as competitors to publishers. I'm retired and I spend a lot of time browsing the internet, often going to places I probably shouldn't. I've seen what's on some of the pirate sites. They have a much better selection of books than Amazon.

A couple of times I wanted to read a book that Amazon doesn't have available and I found it them on pirate sites. Some of those have since become available on Amazon. If that's because the pirates have it I'm glad.

As a reader, the point is to have books to read. Publishers are far better equipped to get them for us than pirates are. Even the pirates depend on publishers. We need to support the publishers. But let's be glad for the pirates, too. I think they do more good than harm.

Barry

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Technically, you *could* put your Kindle, your wife's, your mother's and those of three friends accross the globe into one account. Technically, that would be cheating, making misuse of the account. However, there is no way for Amazon to check for this scenario, apart from coming to your house to check and see if all the Kindles are actually there.

Is doesn't take much to turn delivery drones into DRM drones

[barryem]

Originally Posted by HarryT

both you and your friend now have the book. That's the fundamental difference. Two people now have the book when previously only one person did.

It is a fundamental difference to a lawyer or publisher. A congressman making new law probably considers it fundamental. I'm not sure why a reader should care.

Barry

[barryem]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

I loan my ebooks with a spare Kindle. That way, DRM remains intact.

That's how I loan my books as well. But I have no problem with those who give a friend a copy.

Barry

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by barryem

He sent me 2 short audiobooks, one watermarked to me and one not. He asked me to do my best and send them back and he would tell me which was which. I converted them and sent in the copies, thinking I was very smart, and he identified them correctly. 50/50 chance so we did it again. After the third time I decided he was right.

It could have been something like undetectable low or high frequency tones at the beginning or ending of the book, or in the "silences" for example. You should have opened it up with an audio-editor, and run a high and low pass filter over it

(Or replace half of the books with static and send it back like that. "Huh? Static? No... I don't hear anything strange? )

Just a guess, though. I don't know anything about audio watermarking.

[pidgeon92]

Originally Posted by sirmaru

Are we in technical violation of the copyright rules or would we have to be careful that one finished entirely before the next person starts?

No to both. You can have as many copies on devices registered to your Amazon account as the publisher allows. Most often this is 6, sometimes it is less. If the publisher doesn't request DRM on the books, they can be on unlimited devices on your account.

[sirmaru]

Originally Posted by barryem

It is a fundamental difference to a lawyer or publisher. A congressman making new law probably considers it fundamental. I'm not sure why a reader should care.

Barry

I agree with that. If there is a crack down, it will be against the pirate sites, not individual readers.

The song publishers once sent out thousands of subpoenas to individual downloaders. I remember one was a welfare grandmother whose grandkids were downloading songs to her PC. She had a huge judgment against her.

The negative publicity against the publishers was huge.

I am sure the eBook publishers have learned from the experience of the music publishers.

[Canuck_in_Japan]

Originally Posted by sirmaru

Back in 1930 I used to collect music on wire recorders. From 1960 onwards I collected them on tape. When I converted them to MP3 format about 10 years ago Media Monkey was a necessity since none of them had any metadata. However, MP3 songs purchased from Amazon today are filled with the proper metadata and Media Monkey is no longer necessary.

Dear Lord, you must be practically 100 years old! Is that why your posts regarding piracy are so inaccurate?