Amazon is nobody's friend

[frahse]

Originally Posted by BenG

You could sell a hamburger exactly like a Big Mac. You just can't call it a Big Mac.

If you are Apple, you can claim that that hamburger looks exactly like Apple's hamburger, and sue them to stop sales, especially in Germany.

[frahse]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

I don't know of any titles exclusively published by Amazon. If there are titles that were exclusively published by Amazon then it was the author or holder of the book rights who chose to exclusively publish with Amazon. That was their choice. They didn't have to work with Amazon. They could have gone elsewhere. That is my point. In no way is Amazon, the company, a monopoly, because people have choices.

The definition of a monopoly is a lack of choice. As long as people can chose a competitor there is no monopoly.

Realtors like house sellers to sign exclusive contracts.
Agents demand exclusive contracts.

Hey boys and girls may demand exclusive arrangements with each other.

Now in all these and other cases, sometimes people or entities that are "under contract" "jump the fence" or "leave the reservation." Then the lawyers congregate. Then the courts argue jurisdiction. Again more exclusiveness.

Life is not such a open deal when you get right down to it.

I believe that what we are seeing here are people that are being a little too facile with their arguments. That comes about from listening to politicians too much.

[speakingtohe]

My garandmother was 86 when she came to visit me in 1992. She lived in a rural area and had never been to McDonald's. She used to sneak off at all hours to go to McDonald's and her only complaint was that they would not sell her a Happy Meal. I bought her a to-go one once and she was ok with that, but still wanted to have it in the restaurant.

Go figure

Helen

[frahse]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

I can see the concern: If Amazon can "buy up" all the good authors as both publisher AND distributor, it's a potential trust issue, I think. But it'll have to be worked out in the courts. Who knows? Maybe we'll get an Amazon Publisher and Amazon Distributor bust-up like the Bells.

But is it a problem if the publishers "buy up" all the good authors and then pay what they want, and charge whatever outlandish price they want. And furthermore require these authors "by contract" to only deal with these publishers and to write what the publishers want, and to require the book sellers to primarily promote these authors and publisher's works. The other authors are found in the back along with the comics and science fiction.

My word! That is awful.

Wait, I believe in the past that has happened.

Another example is when the movie studios signed the very young actors and actresses and then by contract could renew their services every 7 years and these people didn't work if they didn't sign. The courts threw that out as "involuntary servitude."

And these were artists! Who would have thought!

[frahse]

Ah, my friends I have been on a roll. A little more effusive than normal.

But then both my teams won today, and are undefeated!

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

*emphasis added by me.

Which still does not prove a monopoly.

1. The book can be purchased in paper through other stores. B&N, Books-A-Million, BiggerBooks.com to name a few.
2. The book can be borrowed from the library.
3. The author chose to use Amazon instead of some other publisher...Amazon did not "force" him to do so. He has prevented consumers from getting the e-book version from other sources.

Again, there is no proof of a monopoly. When Amazon becomes the only source for all of the items it sells, (like FPL once being the only source for electricity in the city, county, or state of Florida) then I will consider it a monopoly.

But now, respectfully, I feel you're moving goalposts. When you said (paraphrase) "there's no monopoly because everything I see on Amazon I can buy elsewhere", and someone shows that there are things on Amazon that you can't buy elsewhere, saying "but the library has it!" is a goalpost movement, in my mind.

Yeah, the library has it. Because the library bought the book through Amazon. It's still the same deal: Amazon is a gatekeeper of some books. That's all.

I'm not arguing Amazon is good or bad or whatever. You made a statement about everything on Amazon being elsewhere and therefore no monopoly. I responded with some facts otherwise. Accept them or not, I have no dog in this discussion.

Also, IANAL, but monopolies are not about "forcing" providers to do anything. Monopolies are broken to protect customers, not providers. The fact that the author "chose" to sign an exclusive contract with Amazon for sexeh Amazon money would have ZERO bearing on a Amazon Publisher / Distributor anti-trust case.

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

But now, respectfully, I feel you're moving goalposts. When you said (paraphrase) "there's no monopoly because everything I see on Amazon I can buy elsewhere", and someone shows that there are things on Amazon that you can't buy elsewhere, saying "but the library has it!" is a goalpost movement, in my mind.

Yeah, the library has it. Because the library bought the book through Amazon. It's still the same deal: Amazon is a gatekeeper of some books. That's all.

I'm not arguing Amazon is good or bad or whatever. You made a statement about everything on Amazon being elsewhere and therefore no monopoly. I responded with some facts otherwise. Accept them or not, I have no dog in this discussion.

Also, IANAL, but monopolies are not about "forcing" providers to do anything. Monopolies are broken to protect customers, not providers. The fact that the author "chose" to sign an exclusive contract with Amazon for sexeh Amazon money would have ZERO bearing on a Amazon Publisher / Distributor anti-trust case.

Who's moving goal posts?

The book is available elsewhere. A fact proven by the links provided in my post.

How in the world can you assume the library got the book from Amazon? There are multiple sources, again proven by the links provided in my post.

Based on your argument, Amazon should be in court right now, as should every other publishing house with exclusive rights, as well as every record label, movie production studio, etc. There is no antitrust issue, however, because they are not monopolies.

The fact that you are still participating in this discussion completely negates your claim of "having no dog in the discussion".

[OtterBooks]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Were the chickens clearly informed beforehand that they weren't to leave the enclosure? And was there a capon in the group?

Well that all depends what a capon is.

[replica145]

Originally Posted by OtterBooks

Well that all depends what a capon is.

It's kind of like a tiny olive but pickled ...

[avariel]

ABC is not a monopoly because it is the only channel that airs Good Morning America.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by pidgeon92

So? Of course they don't want a lawsuit. Nobody wants to be involved in a lawsuit. They still gave each and every other purchaser $30 back for a book they paid less than $10 for. Still sounds like a win for the consumer.

Not if you compare it with 150k, which was one point. And they offered $30 to avoid another lawsuit, which was the other point.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by frahse

Thanks pidgeon92. I started to point out that and a few other things to Sil_liS, but I realized that every comment I made produced still another retort that had no substance so I just let it go and moved on.

Because things like courts deciding that Amazon was wrong are without substance to you.
Do you remember saying this:

Originally Posted by frahse

But seriously, I am interested in hearing of actual real cases of Amazon's treacherous misdeeds if any exist.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

Again, there is no proof of a monopoly. When Amazon becomes the only source for all of the items it sells, (like FPL once being the only source for electricity in the city, county, or state of Florida) then I will consider it a monopoly.

And now it's ALL items it sells. But only for Amazon, right? Because I see that FPL also sells boilers, and I don't think that they are the only ones who do that.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by Fbone

Thomas & Mercer, an Amazon publisher, has 4 novels soon to be published. They are available as pre-order. B&N is selling the print editions for the exact same price as Amazon. So, according to Mr Lynch they will have the ebooks for sale when released.

This will be interesting to see.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by replica145

It's kind of like a tiny olive but pickled ...

I love those chopped up in tartar sauce.