An Official Rebuke

Kemp · 11-24-2010, 01:00 PM

At me, not towards anyone else, to clarify.

Though it is uncertain as to exactly how enthusiastic they are about enforcement of this issue, Amazon has officially pulled my book for being priced lower elsewhere (as in free). I know there are more than a couple of forum lurkers around who have the free at Smashwords, priced at Amazon (because they don't offer free, of course), so I'd recommend changing that up as soon as possible lest you wind up losing that particular nicety.

I'm sure I can get the book back up, and it's quite important to me to do so. However, due to the distribution deal, I will unfortunately have to wait for an absurdity of time before the pricing gets updated everywhere else, followed by what I'm sure will be a long delay on the part of Amazon in getting it put back up. If anyone has particular suggestions as to how to facilitate this process, I'd be more than delighted to hear it.

Of course the omnipresent possibility is to say, "Screw Amazon," but that's pretty much a terrible idea, as much as I hate to say. They're gigantic and unwieldly, and they care very little for their self-pubbed partners (I didn't get any message about why they pulled it; they just did and let me scramble to figure it out), but sales potential is too high to disregard. Including the brief times it was listed free and UK store sales, I probably had close 13,500 downloads, which entirely crushes 11 months of Smashwords availability. I can't really disregard that.

The saddest thing: it probably won't be on Amazon for the Christmas season, when everybody will be buying up Kindles and books.

HarryT · 11-24-2010, 01:27 PM

Does Amazon's publishing agreement prohibit you from offering the book more cheaply elsewhere?

Kemp · 11-24-2010, 01:43 PM

In the confusing and garbled legalese, yes it most certainly does. Though I'm not entirely certain it always had, as I seem to remember that was one of the biggest points of the 70% royalty deal was that, in order to get it, you had to have the book's lowest price at Amazon. This was one main reason why I put it at 99 cents and at the 35% rate. Or I at least seem to remember that being the case.

Regardless of what it was and mild excuses, Amazon can and will pull books priced lower elsewhere. I don't think this completely precludes the possibility of returning it to a favorable status, but...

At the very least, I know a few of the MR lurkers who have their books free everywhere except Amazon, and I'm sure there are a few listing it as cheaper. Whether or not the crawler happens to catch it is anyone's guess, though.

Lemurion · 11-24-2010, 02:34 PM

Good luck.

I would recommend changing your signature, though. Right now it implies the book is still free at Smashwords, and that's no longer the case.

queentess · 11-24-2010, 02:47 PM

I don't know the specifics, but I remember someone else posting that they could have it "free" at Smashwords as long as it was priced and then they could offer a discount code to take it to $0. I'm not sure if this is how they were able to circumvent this or not, it's just what I recall reading.

Luke King · 11-24-2010, 06:39 PM

I'm pretty sure if you had a discount code at Smashwords and a price at Amazon, you would be safe. I can't imagine their crawler catching that.

HarryT · 11-25-2010, 12:58 AM

A contract has to be a two-way street. If Amazon are doing their bit in advertising your book for you, they have to have a reasonable expectation that people will buy the book from them and not elsewhere more cheaply. I don't think you have much cause for complaint that Amazon have stopped selling the book.

Luke King · 11-25-2010, 01:25 AM

Does anyone know of a book being pulled from Amazon because Barnes & Noble or Sony discounted it. At the moment, with the book I've just released, I haven't chosen to distribute to Barnes & Noble or Sony, as they discount.

Does Amazon match the discount in these cases, or do they pull the book?

nomesque · 11-25-2010, 02:22 AM

What? Are you sure? Is that Haven? If so, it still shows up as available to me (australia). Or do I have the wrong person and book?

And if it is still unavailable, are you sure this isn't a temporary pricing stuff-up? Happens sometimes on Amazon.

charonme · 11-25-2010, 03:39 AM

That's strange, I've seen books sold on amazon that were offered for free elsewhere

Kemp · 11-25-2010, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

A contract has to be a two-way street. If Amazon are doing their bit in advertising your book for you, they have to have a reasonable expectation that people will buy the book from them and not elsewhere more cheaply. I don't think you have much cause for complaint that Amazon have stopped selling the book.

Please don't misunderstand, this was not intended to be a complaint on my part as much as a warning to other people who were in the same situation as myself: Naomi Kramer, Wesley Allison (though I don't see him lurking here often), David Daglish, and so on. There are a *lot* of people who offer their books on Amazon while putting them elsewhere for free. I suspect it becomes all a matter of the web crawler catching it, and apparently it's not doing that great of a job.

To Luke:

Yes, I have heard of someone getting their book not pulled but heavily discounted. They had the 70% royalty rate on a $6-7 book which Barnes and Noble discounted. Amazon's web-crawler found it and ended up pricing the book at $2.50 to undercut the competition, which put the person back to the 30% royalty bracket. This was through the Smashwords distribution deal, so the person couldn't do anything to speed along the change; he eventually decided to stop selling through Smashwords all together, and it ended up taking something like 4 weeks for the book to disappear off of partner sites.

And...

Yes, I can see Haven's back up, as well. It's very confusing to me, as it was gone from UK for near to 2 weeks and the US for one. Nothing has changed from the terms of the email they sent me; the offending cheaper site wasn't listed as simultaneously iBooks, Kobo, Sony, and B&N; it was just B&N. Of course, the price change hasn't been reflected anywhere, and the book is listed as "Draft" in my DTP Bookshelf.

Odd.

nomesque · 11-25-2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kemp

Yes, I can see Haven's back up, as well. It's very confusing to me, as it was gone from UK for near to 2 weeks and the US for one. Nothing has changed from the terms of the email they sent me; the offending cheaper site wasn't listed as simultaneously iBooks, Kobo, Sony, and B&N; it was just B&N. Of course, the price change hasn't been reflected anywhere, and the book is listed as "Draft" in my DTP Bookshelf.

Odd.

Ahhh, so you did get an email from them. Sorry, I misunderstood, thought you'd had no communication. Seems peculiar, bordering on truly bizarre, that they'd not either act on this unilaterally or put out a statement of their position somewhere like the DTP forum. I wonder if it was a misguided bit of enthusiasm from a new employee, hence the making it available again? *ponder*

For those interested: since first reading the 35% 'royalty' contract, I've maintained that selling something for a lower price and making it available free are legally two different beasts. So far, it's seemed that Amazon agreed with me. *shrug*

Where the 70% contract is in place, Amazon has only been known to pull books in situations where the price difference is extreme, from what I've seen. None of the other retailers seem to spontaneously discount very deeply. The only problematic situations I've seen is where there's been a pricing stuff-up elsewhere and hence when Amazon has lowered the sale price - as it's entitled to do under the 70% contract - the author has ended up with 70% of a much lower price. However, they don't tend to kick people onto the 35% contract due to the sale price falling under $2.99.

mr ploppy · 11-25-2010, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kemp

Amazon has officially pulled my book for being priced lower elsewhere (as in free).

There goes that idea then. I was going to put a short on Amazon and then have it free on Smashwords thinking they would just match the free price on Amazon.

Luke King · 12-02-2010, 04:15 AM

The news from Smashwords today is that Barnes & Noble and Sony (along with Kobo) will no longer be discounting Smashwords authors' books, so we can all distribute them out again safely.

https://www.smashwords.com/about/beta

ASparrow · 12-02-2010, 05:36 AM

I just pulled my books, all of them, from Amazon because they're free everywhere else but. I had other reasons, too, but this bit of news helped me pull the trigger.

11-24-2010, 01:00 PM	#1
Kemp Zealot Posts: 106 Karma: 271834 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Minnesota Device: none	An Official Rebuke At me, not towards anyone else, to clarify. Though it is uncertain as to exactly how enthusiastic they are about enforcement of this issue, Amazon has officially pulled my book for being priced lower elsewhere (as in free). I know there are more than a couple of forum lurkers around who have the free at Smashwords, priced at Amazon (because they don't offer free, of course), so I'd recommend changing that up as soon as possible lest you wind up losing that particular nicety. I'm sure I can get the book back up, and it's quite important to me to do so. However, due to the distribution deal, I will unfortunately have to wait for an absurdity of time before the pricing gets updated everywhere else, followed by what I'm sure will be a long delay on the part of Amazon in getting it put back up. If anyone has particular suggestions as to how to facilitate this process, I'd be more than delighted to hear it. Of course the omnipresent possibility is to say, "Screw Amazon," but that's pretty much a terrible idea, as much as I hate to say. They're gigantic and unwieldly, and they care very little for their self-pubbed partners (I didn't get any message about why they pulled it; they just did and let me scramble to figure it out), but sales potential is too high to disregard. Including the brief times it was listed free and UK store sales, I probably had close 13,500 downloads, which entirely crushes 11 months of Smashwords availability. I can't really disregard that. The saddest thing: it probably won't be on Amazon for the Christmas season, when everybody will be buying up Kindles and books.

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11-24-2010, 01:27 PM	#2
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Does Amazon's publishing agreement prohibit you from offering the book more cheaply elsewhere?

11-24-2010, 01:43 PM	#3
Kemp Zealot Posts: 106 Karma: 271834 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Minnesota Device: none	In the confusing and garbled legalese, yes it most certainly does. Though I'm not entirely certain it always had, as I seem to remember that was one of the biggest points of the 70% royalty deal was that, in order to get it, you had to have the book's lowest price at Amazon. This was one main reason why I put it at 99 cents and at the 35% rate. Or I at least seem to remember that being the case. Regardless of what it was and mild excuses, Amazon can and will pull books priced lower elsewhere. I don't think this completely precludes the possibility of returning it to a favorable status, but... At the very least, I know a few of the MR lurkers who have their books free everywhere except Amazon, and I'm sure there are a few listing it as cheaper. Whether or not the crawler happens to catch it is anyone's guess, though.

11-24-2010, 02:34 PM	#4
Lemurion eReader Posts: 2,750 Karma: 4968470 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: Note 5; PW3; Nook HD+; ChuWi Hi12; iPad	Good luck. I would recommend changing your signature, though. Right now it implies the book is still free at Smashwords, and that's no longer the case.

11-24-2010, 02:47 PM	#5
queentess Reading is sexy Posts: 1,303 Karma: 544517 Join Date: Apr 2009 Device: none	I don't know the specifics, but I remember someone else posting that they could have it "free" at Smashwords as long as it was priced and then they could offer a discount code to take it to $0. I'm not sure if this is how they were able to circumvent this or not, it's just what I recall reading.

11-24-2010, 06:39 PM	#6
Luke King Member Retired Posts: 173 Karma: 200000 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Australia Device: Kindle 2	I'm pretty sure if you had a discount code at Smashwords and a price at Amazon, you would be safe. I can't imagine their crawler catching that.

11-25-2010, 12:58 AM	#7
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	A contract has to be a two-way street. If Amazon are doing their bit in advertising your book for you, they have to have a reasonable expectation that people will buy the book from them and not elsewhere more cheaply. I don't think you have much cause for complaint that Amazon have stopped selling the book.

11-25-2010, 01:25 AM	#8
Luke King Member Retired Posts: 173 Karma: 200000 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Australia Device: Kindle 2	Does anyone know of a book being pulled from Amazon because Barnes & Noble or Sony discounted it. At the moment, with the book I've just released, I haven't chosen to distribute to Barnes & Noble or Sony, as they discount. Does Amazon match the discount in these cases, or do they pull the book?

11-25-2010, 02:22 AM	#9
nomesque Snooty Bestselling Author Posts: 1,485 Karma: 1000000 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Ipswich, QLD, Australia Device: PRS-650	What? Are you sure? Is that Haven? If so, it still shows up as available to me (australia). Or do I have the wrong person and book? And if it is still unavailable, are you sure this isn't a temporary pricing stuff-up? Happens sometimes on Amazon.

11-25-2010, 03:39 AM	#10
charonme Zealot Posts: 103 Karma: 11904 Join Date: Nov 2010 Device: K3	That's strange, I've seen books sold on amazon that were offered for free elsewhere

12-02-2010, 04:15 AM	#14
Luke King Member Retired Posts: 173 Karma: 200000 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Australia Device: Kindle 2	The news from Smashwords today is that Barnes & Noble and Sony (along with Kobo) will no longer be discounting Smashwords authors' books, so we can all distribute them out again safely. https://www.smashwords.com/about/beta

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12-02-2010, 05:36 AM	#15
ASparrow Addict Posts: 355 Karma: 600000 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Boston Device: Palm TX	I just pulled my books, all of them, from Amazon because they're free everywhere else but. I had other reasons, too, but this bit of news helped me pull the trigger.