05-19-2011, 03:10 PM | #61 | |
Wizard
Posts: 2,016
Karma: 2838487
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Device: Ipad, IPhone
|
Quote:
You kind of ignored all the other considerations I pointed out, including trying to assess demand, renegotiation of contracts, etc. Its a lot more complex than your Underpants Gnomes theory of putting out the back-list. (You put out the back-list book ????????? Profit!) |
|
05-19-2011, 03:12 PM | #62 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 11,259
Karma: 35056282
Join Date: Jan 2008
Device: Pocketbook
|
Quote:
Nowhere, in the non-I.P. does any producer think that the consumer owes them anything. Certain not that the customer should inconvenience themself just for the benefit of the producer. if they did, they be out of business fast. So why, in blue blazes, do you expect me to take the producer's needs to account, when it comes to I.P products? I'm the buyer, you want my money, offer me what I want, or I'll go someplace where they will offer me what I want. What I get is right out of Little Caesar "I'll give you what I want. And you'll take it. See..." |
|
05-19-2011, 03:20 PM | #63 |
Guru
Posts: 973
Karma: 4269175
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Europe
Device: Pocketbook Basic 613
|
Standard publishing contracts usually establish "in print" for ebooks on the basis of income received by the author during any given accounting period(s), or number of books sold. Meaning, if the author does not receive $x during 1 or 2 accounting periods from print on demand and similar sources, then the book shall be deemed out of print, at least in that format. Details will vary from contract to contract.
|
05-19-2011, 03:31 PM | #64 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 11,259
Karma: 35056282
Join Date: Jan 2008
Device: Pocketbook
|
Quote:
Hmm...A buck a book with virtually no overhead isn't enough...Gotta be $10... Just how much marketing does the publisher do on backlist e-books? That would be an extra expense. So you give me a breakdown of the publishers costs for e-books... You see, bookscanners for P.G. (like me) know how long it takes to scan and proof a book. If you want a sample of it look for The Crystal Button (1890) here on this website. I scanned and proofed it completely. (Crutledge did the fancy e-book honors), total work time about 40 hours - including a triple proof of the text. Try to find a typo. Even at my profession day rate, that's under $2K. And it's a one time shot. And there's almost nothing else. So what's the big costs involved? Explain to me... |
|
05-19-2011, 03:46 PM | #65 |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 11,259
Karma: 35056282
Join Date: Jan 2008
Device: Pocketbook
|
More importantly, what are the variable costs. I expect that a can of soda has more variable costs of production than an e-book does. (Unless you want to consider the author royalty as a variable cost...
|
05-19-2011, 04:05 PM | #66 | |||
Karma Kameleon
Posts: 2,938
Karma: 26738313
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: iPad Mini, iPhone X, Kindle Fire Tab HD 8, Walmart Onn
|
Quote:
Business folks know that not everyone is worth having as a customer. There has to be some middle ground where the price a customer is willing to pay meets the producers willingness to engage in that business. Everyone would be happy if Ford would give away it's cars for free. But Ford isn't about to do so. Quote:
Quote:
Most of us understand that in life you get what you pay for and there is no truly free lunch. Lee |
|||
05-19-2011, 04:33 PM | #67 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 11,259
Karma: 35056282
Join Date: Jan 2008
Device: Pocketbook
|
Quote:
The more people you make happy with your product/service, the more customers you will get. This is not selling Fords for free. It's making Ford realize that you can buy a Hundai. And if you do, Ford has one less customer. One less opportunity to make a profit. As to the can't get richer comment. Isn't that what Coca-Cola does every day? or Hersheys, Mars, or Frito-Lay? They know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that nobody has to buy their products; and offering what their customers want at a price they are willing to pay is critical to their very existences as a business. Nobody has to read a book for entertainment... |
|
05-19-2011, 04:59 PM | #68 |
Maria Schneider
Posts: 3,746
Karma: 26439330
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Near Austin, Texas
Device: 3g Kindle Keyboard
|
Lots of authors who own the erights are putting the books out themselves (I'd bet almost half of the ones out are out because the author either did the work or hired someone to do it.) There are MANY companies that provide this service to authors now--including scanning, proofing and uploading to the various venues.
If the author does the work or has it hired out, the price of the book doesn't have to be "full-price." Many books that aren't out already are mired in arguments over who owns the rights. That's a big stalling part of the process. Some authors are bringing out their books via their agent (Simon Green is one). Unfortunately, you add in agents AND costs for cover art, proofing and whatnot--and guess what? The ones I've seen from Green are at 9.99. Not much of a bargain there. I passed. Another favorite author is the author of the Jade Darcy series--but those books are also 9.99. I would have bought the one I hadn't read, but I think that author (whose name completely escapes me at the moment) went through a service/publisher to get them to ebook. 9.99 is more than I will pay for any book really. If a favorite author puts out a NEW book that I want at more than 7 or 8 bucks I wait for used. And that is a sad state of affairs because I am an author and I know they need to make a living. The problem is--that's just over my budget. Now if the used market starts to slim down...I'm in real trouble... |
05-19-2011, 05:27 PM | #69 |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 11,259
Karma: 35056282
Join Date: Jan 2008
Device: Pocketbook
|
And the sell-through price seems to be $1-6. No-one makes much of anything at $1 -but it can be used to build up a fan base. $2.99-$6 seems to be the popular sell-trhough range. Beyond that, you start losing customers over price.
Put it on the Hamburger Scale (thank you, R.A.H. - Expanded Universe $6 at Baen's). People will pay the cost of a hamburger for an e-book. At a hamburger plus fries and a soda, they start dropping off. In the DVD world, the sell through price was below $20. (Whiich was the price of two theater tickets.) Above and the sales started dropping rapidly for every dollar more above $20. Last edited by Greg Anos; 05-19-2011 at 05:40 PM. |
05-19-2011, 06:06 PM | #70 |
Guru
Posts: 992
Karma: 12000001
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Seattle Wahington U.S.
Device: kindle
|
Romance readers are voracious buyers of backlist titles. Some used bookstores carry almost nothing else. A romance reader who likes an author will buy ALL their backlist and spend hours combing used books stores to find them My favorite authors I have been rebuying as they became available ($6.99 or less only). I've rebought hundreds of titles. So there is a market for backlist romances at least (science fiction and fantasy also). As for the cost of conversion that is a one time expense for many years of continued income. They don't need to make it all back in a couple months like the celebrity books that come and go so rapidly. Long term they could be a reliable source of yearly income.
|
05-19-2011, 06:09 PM | #71 |
Maria Schneider
Posts: 3,746
Karma: 26439330
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Near Austin, Texas
Device: 3g Kindle Keyboard
|
I agree that the sell-through price is about 1 to 6 dollars. The problem with the one dollar price is that you can't sell enough to make a profit in a reasonable time-frame.
I've tried it with an anthology--and it simply takes too long to make enough of a profit to help pay for the next book. There are some fixed costs even with backlist--cover art for example. It's difficult to put together a decent cover for under 200 dollars. It's difficult to hire a proof-reader for under 100 dollars. But let's say those are the costs for an individual (author) doing the work. We'll assume the author scanned the book herself rather than pay to have it scanned/converted. If an author sells 300 copies of the backlist book at 99 cents, she still hasn't earned out on her costs (and I'm low-balling the costs.) So that means to make a profit, she has to sell about 1000 copies. Okay, doable. But so far, that author hasn't made any money--nor can she look forward and say, "Okay I've now made enough money to pay for putting the next book out." Just to clear a few small fixed costs, an author has to sell over 1000 copies. If that is the ONLY book on backlist, you could say, "everything else is gravy." Uh-no. What about promoting the fact that the book is available??? My blog runs me 100 dollars or so a year. Being on forums is not free either--my internet costs me 35 to 40 bucks a month. So we're still not profitable. And for each backlist book, the author can expect to spend 300 dollars OR MORE. Want better cover work to sell better? It's gonna be closer to 500 dollars. Want to work on the next book so you hire someone to do formatting, uploading and scanning if necessary? That's going to be another 100 or so--and there are multiple sites to upload to and multiple formats. If the author isn't doing the conversions herself, the price for converting uploading runs anywhere from 35 (no checking for any errors) to hourly fees, to a "per change" fee. This can end up costing several hundred dollars, especially if you hire one of the more expensive options. Some authors can sell 1000 copies a month--but not all of us can. So that means for ONE backlist book, it can take a long time to 'earn out' even with very small fixed costs if the author lists at 99 cents. I know a few backlist authors who have gone with barebones covers--and guess what? That means less sales because they end up looking like an ill-informed indie author rather than a well-edited professional writer with a long-term career. I'm not knocking them either. It's just not as cheap to get a book up on Amazon/Sony as it might first appear. And the more of us that are doing it, the higher the costs go. Apple is already resetting contracts so that if a person buys a kindle book through an apple device, Apple takes 30 percent. Since Amazon needs a cut too, guess where the money *has* to come from? Artists who start to make a name for themselves raise their prices (rightfully so; that's the nature of the marketplace.) Editors/proofreaders with a good reputation? They're going to charge more. It's not "free." And when you upload entirely for "free"--meaning you do all the work yourself, it means you aren't writing. So even there, there is a cost. FWIW. Just a view from the street. |
05-19-2011, 06:23 PM | #72 | |
Maria Schneider
Posts: 3,746
Karma: 26439330
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Near Austin, Texas
Device: 3g Kindle Keyboard
|
Quote:
Yes, an author can continue to make some money for years--but again, conversion isn't the only cost. See my post above. Cover art is actually one of the higher costs and IMO it's a necessity in order to make your money back. |
|
05-19-2011, 07:19 PM | #73 | |
Wizard
Posts: 2,888
Karma: 5875940
Join Date: Dec 2007
Device: PRS505, 600, 350, 650, Nexus 7, Note III, iPad 4 etc
|
As a matter of interest relating to selling, do you have any idea how many copies of The Crystal Button have actually been downloaded?
Quote:
|
|
05-19-2011, 07:24 PM | #74 | |
Resident Curmudgeon
Posts: 74,563
Karma: 129670952
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
|
Quote:
|
|
05-19-2011, 08:05 PM | #75 |
Resident Curmudgeon
Posts: 74,563
Karma: 129670952
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Bob Mayer backlist 0.99 to 2.99 (Kindle) | koland | Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links) | 5 | 10-02-2012 12:33 AM |
Backlist e-book pricing | Kiteology | General Discussions | 15 | 04-07-2011 01:37 PM |
Watching for inexpensive backlist collections | elizilla | General Discussions | 9 | 02-07-2011 05:24 PM |
Harlequin Backlist sale | mikaelalind | Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links) | 3 | 04-12-2010 11:33 PM |
Amanda Quick Backlist | BeccaAnn | Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links) | 0 | 01-13-2010 10:52 AM |