05-19-2011, 11:06 AM | #46 |
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Then, of course, the publishers quitclaim any title that reaches the backlist status? Afer all, there's no value left?
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05-19-2011, 11:06 AM | #47 | |
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a different # in mind for the term "sell well" than the author. Certainly the return required for the author to find it profitable would be different. Most books that attempt a tie in with the events of the day, or a movie run would have a limited run, as you suggest but many stories are timeless. I am not sure what is counted as backlist, anyway. If a book is still listed on Amazon or offered on eBay, or in an online or b&m used bookstore, is that "in print"? If the price for a "new" paperback, printed a number of years ago, is over $100, is that "still in print"? Andre Norton's "Witch World" series comes to mind. Then the issue for me is more about getting those kind of books in ebook form, officially "backlist" or not. Luck; Ken |
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05-19-2011, 11:07 AM | #48 | ||||
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Thanks to Mr Ploppy for his comment re Moore & LLoyd...
To Rogue librarian... read my words "it is not unknown," I didn't say any thing else, I didn't say "this is a definition," I didn't say, "It is general, common or anything else..." I said, "It is not unknown..." which implies that it happens, not that it is general or common or anything else... and YES it is an attempt to evade contractual obligations, THAT is the point I was making... and, if you wanted to do anything about it then you'd have to prove (in a civil court) that the publisher intentionally did this... and, anarmadoll, read preceding lines as well... so "bazillion dollars to buy..." hah, hah It doesn't actually even have to be deliberate... there was a well known case where a publisher actually lost a small storeroom in their warehouse complex (a shelving unit was moved across the access) for a couple of decades... when it was eventually rediscovered, there were a bunch of titles that were thought out of print and rights reverted to the authors but (some titles had up to a 100 or more copies) were in fact still in print and the publisher still had the rights to them... Quote:
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05-19-2011, 11:39 AM | #49 |
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It's what I call "The Hollywood Mindset".
Guess what will sell, have it created, and market the <bleep> out of it. Then sell the product to all the suckers. That's where you get the ghost written autobiography of a 25 year old comedienne, who's "hot" this year. Or, they latest kiss-and-tell, diet book, how to make a million, ect. Or Iron Man 4. Pump and dump. Since the shelf life of such creations are about as long as a loaf of bread, the great fear is piracy. Any sale not make while the product is "hot", will never, ever, be made up. That's why DVD's release window got move up over the years, so that the could still use the new release marketing. There's nothing wrong with this kind of marketing. The problem is, you are not selling to the heavy users. You are selling to the casual users. the people who buy one book a year. The heavy users mostly ignore you. The "niche" markets cater the the heavy users. The niche buyers buy dozens of books a year, but they won't pay premium prices for them. That's where you get the Baen's, the Harlequins, ect. And they aren't necessarily tied to the "latest book" concept. the book often doesn't have to be new to the market, it's enough that they are new to the reader. And a well run niche just keeps rolling and rolling, until they get bought by a "Hollywood Mindset" publisher who tries to do the blockbuster method to a steady low-margin, albiet, profitable business. Which then wrecks the acqusition, leaving the "Hollywood Mindset" saying that there is no money in niche, and another niche publisher starts up and start rolling and rolling again. And repeat. The rules for one market don't apply for the other market. Backlist fits the niche market, but not the "Hollywood Mindset" market. And this thread is about what's good for the"Hollywood Mindset" and not the heavy reader market. Hence the conflict. RSE |
05-19-2011, 12:18 PM | #50 | |
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You can make money off of niche markets. (See also, Baen, ha.) There's no doubt about that. You can probably make profit off of a niche market like back lists. Certainly some authors have done so very well. So if the question is merely "Can publishers make money by converting their backlists to eBook format, sticking them up on Amazon, and taking the long view?", I think the answer is surely YES! Not a lot of money, not bestseller-sexy money, but money. Lee is also, I think, dancing around The Subject That Cannot Be Rationally Discussed by talking about price points and whether or not consumers will tolerate them. I think, in general, that most people will pay $10 or less for a backlist book that they crave and $6 or less in general for a backlist book that they might like, and anything over that price point they most likely won't buy. Whether or not THAT is profitable for the publisher remains to be seen, but I don't know why it wouldn't be over the long haul. I think the biggest problem is that publishers aren't taking the long view. Not that there's a lack of evidence for THAT. |
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05-19-2011, 01:18 PM | #51 | |
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05-19-2011, 01:40 PM | #52 | |
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05-19-2011, 01:51 PM | #53 | |
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Story editing? Zero. Already done before, first time around. Cover cost? Optional. Many backlists don't have a cover. Even if they do want a cover, don't they already have old covers for the book? It's paid for, re-use (just like the story...). The publisher bought it, didn't they? (I have a biography of James Bama, most of his covers were work for hire.) Scanning and Proofing cost? These are real costs. They are ways to lower them (for another thread) but they are a real cost for e-books. Putting the actual e-book together. I know a person working in the EU doing this as a private contractor. Price? 100 Euros a book. ($142 USD). Advance to the author? Next joke. The author can deal or not. No advance for doing nothing. Website/Space? These companies already have websites, how much more does it cost to keep a 1 megabyte file online? Accounting? Simple inventory, not Open Item inventory. Every copy is the same. Same costs as any retail operation, spread over the entire backlist. DRM? Why? At $2, say on Amazon, why bother to hunt for a pirate copy. One button buying, bro...That's paying for the convenience, if not the content. Besides if the DRM infrastructure cost as much as the book, you wasting you money as a publisher. But the publishers don't want $6-10, they want $15-20. They are just forced down to $6-10. Last edited by Greg Anos; 05-19-2011 at 02:23 PM. |
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05-19-2011, 02:28 PM | #54 | ||||
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To further answer your question * The actual buying patterns of ebook buyers. Quote:
Looks like the average ebook buyer, contrary to MR belief, is more focused on current bestsellers than on backlist. * From Poohbear in the other thread: Quote:
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Last edited by stonetools; 05-19-2011 at 02:31 PM. |
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05-19-2011, 02:30 PM | #55 | |
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That's PARTICIPATING in a conversation, not shutting it down. Lee |
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05-19-2011, 02:32 PM | #56 | |
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Lee |
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05-19-2011, 02:34 PM | #57 | |
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That's a different scenario. Lee |
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05-19-2011, 02:37 PM | #58 | |
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You can still buy the e-magazines, they will be in continual e-print. |
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05-19-2011, 02:44 PM | #59 |
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A couple of "what this thread is about" -- so here's MY answer as the one who started it -- fully recognizing that threads take on a life of their own and need not confine themselves to the OP's intent.
I was trying to bring to light the notion that we, as readers, need to offer incentive to the publishers and authors to bring out their back list in ebook form. Arguing that back list titles should be priced to compete with used paperbacks (as some have, not necessarily in this thread) -- and complaints about price in general, all seem to ignore the publisher's pov. As consumers, we all want the most for the least. In that, I'm like everybody else. I too would hesitate to pay new retail hardback price for an ebook of, say, Dune. Frankly, even paying the $9 or $10 "new paperback book" price would give me pause. But that's me thinking as a consumer. Instead, we should consider what it is to be a publisher in the business of making money. If we want something bad enough, we need to offer rewards for it's creation. And if we never come to LIKE the situation, we can at least understand it better. Lee |
05-19-2011, 02:50 PM | #60 | |
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But that would potential take demand away from your bestsellers (at $15-20 for the same cost structure...) Sorry, I don't buy it. Or else those niche marketers would have died years ago... |
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