Keep Original and Cropped (PDF) Versions

[johnpdoe]

Hi there,

I am organizing my ebook collection with calibre.
I'd like to keep two different pdf files for some books, the original one, and a cropped version.

Is there any way to keep the two files in the calibre lib?

Thanks a lot.

[Oboe Joe]

You could put the original .pdf file into a .rar archive and add the .rar as an additional format to your book.

[johnpdoe]

Hi,

Thanks a lot for the answer. I am doing it this way, and well, even though it is not the optimal solution, is a good workaround. I had to disable a plugin which was opening the zip/rar files automatically and replacing the main pdf

However, I'd like to propose to the calibre devs to consider the option of having several books in the same format for one entry (if that is even compatible with the calibre current architecture, of course).

I can think in some cases in which this feature could be useful:

1.- Having the original and cropped PDF files of a book.
2.- Having the same book in 2 or more different languages.
3.- Keeping the same pdf in B/W and Color
4.- Keeping different revisions of a book/paper

(3 and 4 thinking here in technical books, not novels, of course)

There could be a way to define a "default" document for each format, which the default actions could apply to, i.e if you selected "View Specific Format" and thenn select PDF, the default PDF document would open.

What do you think? Does this make any sense? Is this compatible with the actual calibre internal design?

Thanks a lot for this brilliant app guys.

[itimpi]

I must admit that the idea of being allowed to have multiple copies of a book in the same format appeals to me, but off-hand I cannot see how it would work from a GUI perspective, and also what the database structure ramification might be.

An example of where I would add it would be where I add an ePub file and do not like the cover and so run an epub->epub conversion which currently overwrites the original. Being able to keep the original epub and the new generated one would be attractive just in case the conversion messes something up. It is also in line with the general calibre philopsophy of not changing things if not required.

I guess what I am asking is some way of marking a particular instance of a format as a "Master" that is not to be overwritten.

[jackie_w]

Originally Posted by itimpi

I guess what I am asking is some way of marking a particular instance of a format as a "Master" that is not to be overwritten.

I would also love to have this option.

[Starson17]

Originally Posted by johnpdoe

However, I'd like to propose to the calibre devs to consider the option of having several books in the same format for one entry (if that is even compatible with the calibre current architecture, of course).

I understand why you want this, and agree it would be nice. Nonetheless, I've written code that is not compatible with this, and I haven't written all that much code. There are a fair number of loops that cycle through the defined formats (LIT, PDF, TXT, etc.) and do something for each format.

Of course, code can always be revised .....

[Starson17]

Originally Posted by itimpi

An example of where I would add it would be where I add an ePub file and do not like the cover and so run an epub->epub conversion which currently overwrites the original. Being able to keep the original epub and the new generated one would be attractive just in case the conversion messes something up. It is also in line with the general calibre philopsophy of not changing things if not required.

I guess what I am asking is some way of marking a particular instance of a format as a "Master" that is not to be overwritten.

FYI, I never overwrite my "master" when doing a same format conversion. I do this:

• Add an empty book (It's on the Add icon)
• Select that empty book first and the one I'm working on second.
• Merge the two with "Keep others" for the merge.

This produces a copy of the master record. I work on the copy until I'm happy with the results.

[itimpi]

Originally Posted by Starson17

FYI, I never overwrite my "master" when doing a same format conversion. I do this:

• Add an empty book (It's on the Add icon)
• Select that empty book first and the one I'm working on second.
• Merge the two with "Keep others" for the merge.

This produces a copy of the master record. I work on the copy until I'm happy with the results.

I know there are workarounds such as the one you describe. However the fact that you have to even use such a workaround suggests that there is an unmet need.

[Starson17]

Originally Posted by itimpi

there is an unmet need.

I agree, I just don't know the best way to address that need. Sometimes, I want to lock the extra format copy to protect against deletion. Sometimes I want to have two equal copies (a multicolumn pdf and a single column pdf). Sometimes, I want to keep several copies of the same format because I'm working on that format, but aren't yet sure my changes are good - so I want to keep the original. Sometimes I want different copies of the same format because one works best on my IPAQ and the other (same format, but internally revised) works better on my phone.

Each situation could have a slightly different effect on the way Calibre works now.

Currently, I deal with all those issues by keeping a "master" record and one or more "copy" records. My temporary copy records have "Copy" in the title. I know you know about the workarounds that are available, but others might not.

[kovidgoyal]

That would require changes at too many levels of the calibre internal design. calibre is not really meant to manage documents you are actively working on. It's meant to manage large document collections. If you are actively working on a document you should work on it outside calibre, and put it into calibre once you're done.

A workaround I sometimes use for the epub-to-epub issue is to rename the master epub file to zip. calibre can convert a zip to an epub just fine.

[kovidgoyal]

That said it is certainly possible down the line to add code to designate a format as master. There is the issue of what to do about format to same format conversions in this case, of course.

[johnpdoe]

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

That would require changes at too many levels of the calibre internal design. calibre is not really meant to manage documents you are actively working on. It's meant to manage large document collections. If you are actively working on a document you should work on it outside calibre, and put it into calibre once you're done.

A workaround I sometimes use for the epub-to-epub issue is to rename the master epub file to zip. calibre can convert a zip to an epub just fine.

As I was writting the suggestion, I thought that would be probably your reply. Calibre has a clear way of indexing the files associated to an entry based on the format they have, or at least that's what I get without taking a look at the code.

I got 2 questions anyway (as a newbie that I am here):

Is it possible to lock a file and make it read-only so later conversions wouldn't overwrite it? This way at least is a bit more difficult to overwrite the "master" by accident.

And my second question is: I do not understand how calibre is not "meant to manage documents you are actively working on". Since it has all those conversion engines, it is indeed a program to work on documents (format wise), and not just a static repository.

I repeat, I am a newbie here, and I'm just exploring all the possibilities that calibre has to offer. And maybe is my fault because I still do not know how to use it properly.

But I don't get why if I make a conversion of a document, and its output format already exists for this entry (output being pdf when there's already a pdf associated file for this book) the earlier pdf must be overwritten. Is not this behavior a bit dangerous?

Thanks a lot for the answers guys.

[kovidgoyal]

A conversion is not typically something you do multiple times. Its a one off operation. By actively working I mean editing. As for format to same format, yeah it's dangerous, but then that's the price you pay. I don't think its worth changing the design (and making it a lot more complex to both use and code) for this issue. calibre rarely, destroys a file when you do a same format conversion amongst ebook formats. That of course does not include PDF.

PDF is a display format, you really should avoid converting it as much as possible and never do a PDF to PDF conversion. The results will almost always be worse.

[johnpdoe]

I understand.

The underlying problem here, at least in my case is working with pdf files. I would not care overwriting a file, if I can undo the changes by simply making another conversion backwards. I understand this is feasible between ebook formats, but pdf is not so flexible.

Unfortunately I work almost exclusively with pdf. Today I finished organizing my library with calibre. I have 142 ebooks right now. 132 are pdf files. That is the problem of the technical books. You can't just find them in other format.

Thanks for the app and the support.

[itimpi]

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

A workaround I sometimes use for the epub-to-epub issue is to rename the master epub file to zip. calibre can convert a zip to an epub just fine.

Can Calibre convert an epub (or other formats) inside a RAR file to a normal epub file outside the RAR? If so this would satisfy my main requirement as I could specify a RAR to Epub conversion. I tend to associate ZIP files with HTML books which is why I mentioned RAR rather than ZIP. If the answer is yes, then perhaps all I need is a way in the Calibre GUI to insert a particular format into the RAR file to give me most of what I want. It also sounds as if it might be much easier to do.

Thinking about the GUI implications it could be a button on the Metadata Editor where one highlighted a particular format and then hit the "Convert to RAR" button?