It's Steve Jobs' fault..

daffy4u · 04-15-2010, 10:29 PM

...IMO.

His deal with the "Gang of 5" Publishers, ushered in the era of the "Agency Model" which has led to higher ebook prices and sales tax on those same ebooks.

Steve Jobs is not a friend of the ebook reading public.

Moejoe · 04-15-2010, 10:33 PM

Steve Jobs is only a friend to Steve Jobs and the vision of a Steve Jobsian future where every good little boy and girl does exactly what Steve Jobs wants them to, and they all play in his garden and nobody else's and everyone likes megalomaniacs in turtle-necks.

Me, I'll take Penguins and Devils any day of the week over Apples and Windows.

phenomshel · 04-15-2010, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daffy4u

...IMO.

His deal with the "Gang of 5" Publishers, ushered in the era of the "Agency Model" which has led to higher ebook prices and sales tax on those same ebooks.

Steve Jobs is not a friend of the ebook reading public.

I've said this from the beginning, only I didn't say it too loudly, in case of lynch mobs. Go, Daffy!!

Publishers themselves aren't friends of the ebook reading public, either.

JSWolf · 04-15-2010, 11:23 PM

Trying to put photos on an iPod Touch using iTunes is like having teeth pulled with no painkillers.

So this is Steve Jobs' idea of how people really want to work?

kindlekitten · 04-15-2010, 11:28 PM

can't say I dissagree! in fact karma on that!

=X= · 04-15-2010, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daffy4u

...IMO.
Steve Jobs is not a friend of the ebook reading public.

Wasn't he the guy that said people "People don't read anymore."

Kali Yuga · 04-16-2010, 12:53 AM

I have to agree, Apple definitely paved the way for the agency model.

Of course I don't view the agency model as 100% awful; most of the hair-pulling is unwarranted, especially since it's highly similar to the models used by Scribd, Smashwords, Amazon DTP....

Barcey · 04-16-2010, 08:55 AM

I think that Steve Jobs believes Apple saved the music industry. The recording industry executives just didn't get it and made bad decision after bad decisions and he showed them how it had to be done. They didn't admit they were wrong and then blamed Apple for lowering the value of the music instead of thanking them for salvaging what remains.

He watched Amazon copy exactly what Apple did in the book publishing industry and it was working well. Then he saw the publishing executives blame Amazon for all their problems. I'm sure he was just shaking his head.

When I look at his background with Pixar and Apple I see that he understands risk. With Pixar they make about 1 movie a year. They have to pick one story and then throw huge resources into animating it and promoting it to make sure it's a hit. They've delivered almost every movie. It's the same with developing any computer electronic gadget. Huge capital investment in R&D and one shot or you're a failure.

If I picture him sitting in a board room with a book publishing executive, doing their normal talking points about the enormous risks they're taking, I picture him wetting his pants laughing. I recall an Apple executive making a comment about the book publishing industry being dysfunctional, and I think that's closer to the truth.

I suspect that Apple tried to negotiate reason with the book publishers and wasn't getting anywhere so they signed a deal that was good for Apple. A guaranteed 30% for an electronic transaction is a very good deal for Apple and a very bad move by the book publishers.

I don't blame Steve Jobs for the BPH stupidity. Apple just bought time. I have enough other things to blames Steve Jobs for.

daffy4u · 04-16-2010, 10:26 AM

I "believe" that the iPad would have sold just as well without the iBook bookstore. Leaving it as just an app with a "bring your own non-DRM ePub" flavor would have been great. Jobs could have said "no" to the Gang of 5.

Steve Jobs has caused ebooks to take a huge step backwards with the prices rising after all the other retailers were starting to lower their prices.

Several weeks ago I was having my car serviced and was reading my Kindle while waiting. A woman started asking questions about it because she was thinking of buying one and *she* mentioned how she had read about the coming higher prices. More people may be aware of the change than I thought but I don't think they all understand that Jobs opened the floodgates.

JSWolf · 04-16-2010, 10:28 AM

I do think that Jobs should have partnered with txtr and brought the txtr app on board since it supports the Adept. Also, the iPad really needs a way to get data onto it so the apps can access it. Apple is forcing people to jailbreak the iPad in order to be able to use it the way they should be able to us it.

But, I also agree 100% that Apple is at fault for the Agency model. All the Agency model has done is make eBooks hard to find/buy and the prices are all over the place. I think Jobs is taking his "People don't read anymore" statement and trying to make it true.

dmaul1114 · 04-16-2010, 11:07 AM

I don't really mind it myself. Prices are all over the place on paper books when I shop around for them as well. Especially for hardcover books. I've dealt with that for years so having the same thing for e-books doesn't bother me.

If a book costs more than I want to pay, I skip it and go buy and read one of the other gazillion books I want to read. No different with e-books now than it was with paper books my whole life.

JSWolf · 04-16-2010, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

I don't really mind it myself. Prices are all over the place on paper books when I shop around for them as well. Especially for hardcover books. I've dealt with that for years so having the same thing for e-books doesn't bother me.

If a book costs more than I want to pay, I skip it and go buy and read one of the other gazillion books I want to read. No different with e-books now than it was with paper books my whole life.

But one of the new problems is now the availability is not what it should be.

dmaul1114 · 04-16-2010, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But one of the new problems is now the availability is not what it should be.

Hasn't affected me yet personally, so I can speak to that. I only read 1-2 books a month (and some are public domain) and read pretty mainstream books and a lot of older stuff, so it just doesn't have much impact on me.

My take on is that it will eventually play out that the e-book is launched at a higher price when the hardcover is the only version out (not the hardcover cover price, but maybe $15 or so varying by book), then will drop to at or below the paperback price when that version is released.

I have no problem with that scheme if that is indeed what comes to play. I waited for cheaper paperback versions all my life, I can wait for the e-book to drop in price on the same schedule. Again, assuming that's how things play out.

poohbear_nc · 04-16-2010, 12:17 PM

It's unfathomable to me the influence of one person (and his company) to virtually derail an entire industry. I can accept the "fanboy" allegiance to Apple products, Apple pricing, etc. It's a personal choice.

I cannot accept this affecting those consumers who choose not to join the Apple fan club. Why should pricing deals negotiated with Apple be foisted onto the entire reading public? Who aren't using Apple products?

This may not fix the exact legal definition of price fixing, but it certainly is imposing its effects upon all buyers.

I will continue voting with my wallet. I will never purchase an Apple product. I will purchase only those ebooks that I feel are reasonably priced, based on the pre-Agency pricing models. I will look elsewhere for books that I feel are unreasonably priced.

Barcey · 04-17-2010, 09:31 AM

I just think the blame and anger belongs directed at the price fixing cartel (gang of 5) and Apple used them to get what was good for Apple.

It's like when a spouse cheats and all the anger gets directed at the person they cheated with. It was obviously the fault of that smooth talking Steve Jobs guy.

I'm not saying Apple is blameless, I just don't think the primary fault should be laid at their feet.

04-15-2010, 10:29 PM	#1
daffy4u I'm Super Kindle-icious Posts: 6,734 Karma: 2434103 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Long Drive, Calinadia Candafornia Device: KDXG, KT, Oasis	It's Steve Jobs' fault.. ...IMO. His deal with the "Gang of 5" Publishers, ushered in the era of the "Agency Model" which has led to higher ebook prices and sales tax on those same ebooks. Steve Jobs is not a friend of the ebook reading public.

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04-15-2010, 10:33 PM	#2
Moejoe Banned Posts: 5,100 Karma: 72193 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: South of the Border Device: Coffin	Steve Jobs is only a friend to Steve Jobs and the vision of a Steve Jobsian future where every good little boy and girl does exactly what Steve Jobs wants them to, and they all play in his garden and nobody else's and everyone likes megalomaniacs in turtle-necks. Me, I'll take Penguins and Devils any day of the week over Apples and Windows.

04-15-2010, 11:23 PM	#4
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 80,784 Karma: 150249619 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Trying to put photos on an iPod Touch using iTunes is like having teeth pulled with no painkillers. So this is Steve Jobs' idea of how people really want to work?

04-15-2010, 11:28 PM	#5
kindlekitten Professional Adventuress Posts: 13,368 Karma: 50260224 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Olympic Peninsula on the OTHER Washington! (the big green clean one on the west coast!) Device: Kindle, the original! Times Two! and gifting an International Kindle	can't say I dissagree! in fact karma on that!

04-16-2010, 12:53 AM	#7
Kali Yuga Professional Contrarian Posts: 2,045 Karma: 3289631 Join Date: Mar 2009 Device: Kindle 4 No Touchie	I have to agree, Apple definitely paved the way for the agency model. Of course I don't view the agency model as 100% awful; most of the hair-pulling is unwarranted, especially since it's highly similar to the models used by Scribd, Smashwords, Amazon DTP....

04-16-2010, 08:55 AM	#8
Barcey Wizard Posts: 1,531 Karma: 8059866 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Canada Device: Kobo H2O / Aura HD / Glo / iPad3	I think that Steve Jobs believes Apple saved the music industry. The recording industry executives just didn't get it and made bad decision after bad decisions and he showed them how it had to be done. They didn't admit they were wrong and then blamed Apple for lowering the value of the music instead of thanking them for salvaging what remains. He watched Amazon copy exactly what Apple did in the book publishing industry and it was working well. Then he saw the publishing executives blame Amazon for all their problems. I'm sure he was just shaking his head. When I look at his background with Pixar and Apple I see that he understands risk. With Pixar they make about 1 movie a year. They have to pick one story and then throw huge resources into animating it and promoting it to make sure it's a hit. They've delivered almost every movie. It's the same with developing any computer electronic gadget. Huge capital investment in R&D and one shot or you're a failure. If I picture him sitting in a board room with a book publishing executive, doing their normal talking points about the enormous risks they're taking, I picture him wetting his pants laughing. I recall an Apple executive making a comment about the book publishing industry being dysfunctional, and I think that's closer to the truth. I suspect that Apple tried to negotiate reason with the book publishers and wasn't getting anywhere so they signed a deal that was good for Apple. A guaranteed 30% for an electronic transaction is a very good deal for Apple and a very bad move by the book publishers. I don't blame Steve Jobs for the BPH stupidity. Apple just bought time. I have enough other things to blames Steve Jobs for.

04-16-2010, 10:26 AM	#9
daffy4u I'm Super Kindle-icious Posts: 6,734 Karma: 2434103 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Long Drive, Calinadia Candafornia Device: KDXG, KT, Oasis	I "believe" that the iPad would have sold just as well without the iBook bookstore. Leaving it as just an app with a "bring your own non-DRM ePub" flavor would have been great. Jobs could have said "no" to the Gang of 5. Steve Jobs has caused ebooks to take a huge step backwards with the prices rising after all the other retailers were starting to lower their prices. Several weeks ago I was having my car serviced and was reading my Kindle while waiting. A woman started asking questions about it because she was thinking of buying one and she mentioned how she had read about the coming higher prices. More people may be aware of the change than I thought but I don't think they all understand that Jobs opened the floodgates.

04-16-2010, 10:28 AM	#10
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 80,784 Karma: 150249619 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	I do think that Jobs should have partnered with txtr and brought the txtr app on board since it supports the Adept. Also, the iPad really needs a way to get data onto it so the apps can access it. Apple is forcing people to jailbreak the iPad in order to be able to use it the way they should be able to us it. But, I also agree 100% that Apple is at fault for the Agency model. All the Agency model has done is make eBooks hard to find/buy and the prices are all over the place. I think Jobs is taking his "People don't read anymore" statement and trying to make it true.

04-16-2010, 11:07 AM	#11
dmaul1114 Wizard Posts: 2,300 Karma: 1121709 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Amazon Kindle 1	I don't really mind it myself. Prices are all over the place on paper books when I shop around for them as well. Especially for hardcover books. I've dealt with that for years so having the same thing for e-books doesn't bother me. If a book costs more than I want to pay, I skip it and go buy and read one of the other gazillion books I want to read. No different with e-books now than it was with paper books my whole life.

04-16-2010, 12:17 PM	#14
poohbear_nc Bah! Humbug! Posts: 64,232 Karma: 135242149 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Durham, NC Device: Every Kindle Ever Made & To Be Made!	It's unfathomable to me the influence of one person (and his company) to virtually derail an entire industry. I can accept the "fanboy" allegiance to Apple products, Apple pricing, etc. It's a personal choice. I cannot accept this affecting those consumers who choose not to join the Apple fan club. Why should pricing deals negotiated with Apple be foisted onto the entire reading public? Who aren't using Apple products? This may not fix the exact legal definition of price fixing, but it certainly is imposing its effects upon all buyers. I will continue voting with my wallet. I will never purchase an Apple product. I will purchase only those ebooks that I feel are reasonably priced, based on the pre-Agency pricing models. I will look elsewhere for books that I feel are unreasonably priced.

04-17-2010, 09:31 AM	#15
Barcey Wizard Posts: 1,531 Karma: 8059866 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Canada Device: Kobo H2O / Aura HD / Glo / iPad3	I just think the blame and anger belongs directed at the price fixing cartel (gang of 5) and Apple used them to get what was good for Apple. It's like when a spouse cheats and all the anger gets directed at the person they cheated with. It was obviously the fault of that smooth talking Steve Jobs guy. I'm not saying Apple is blameless, I just don't think the primary fault should be laid at their feet.

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