EU to ban all shop refunds

columbus · 11-02-2009, 06:50 AM

Bad news for UK shoppers

Quote:

EU BUREAUCRATS want to end the right of shoppers to get their money back for shoddy goods.

This would end the 100 years of protection British consumers have enjoyed.

Quote:

Ministers have vowed to fight the Consumer Rights Directive but the UK Government has no power to stop the change if it is backed by the majority of European Union states.

Yet more bad news from Euroland

Read the full story at :- http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...l-shop-refunds

Sweetpea · 11-02-2009, 06:56 AM

I don't get it... Who is asking for this? The shops? The consumers? Some bureaucrat who has never bought anything in his life? (he has employees to do that...)

And what about consumer protection? Guarantees and such? I know shops are required by law to offer a 2-week money guarantee, without any strings attached. And that was implemented either this year or last year...

I don't understand this one...

HarryT · 11-02-2009, 07:21 AM

The article does not contain enough information to be able to reach an informed opinion about precisely what is going to be "banned". Typical tabloid journalism.

Direct Ebooks · 11-02-2009, 07:21 AM

I think that this article is perfectly suited to the Dail Express' demographic. Euro-skeptics love this kind of thing - The big bad evil EU threatening everything that good ol' Blighty stands for.

I'm no EU super-fan or anything, and this isnt just a British issue - I really despair the non-stop negativity and sensationalism in so called reputable papers. I genuinely feel that this kind of scare-mongering has had a direct influence on issues such as the recession as fear and negative stories impact on peoples actions and confidence in the economy. I really worry about the distinct lack of journalistic integrity these days. It must drive some reporters to near suicide having to cover Katie Prices latest breakdown or telling us how depressing our lives are.

I like many people here I'm sure, hardly ever buy a newspaper any more. Apart from the depresseant effect of many of these rags, it's easier to pick and choose the news you want on the net.

(rant over!)

Direct Ebooks · 11-02-2009, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

The article does not contain enough information to be able to reach an informed opinion about precisely what is going to be "banned". Typical tabloid journalism.

Got there just before me!

Mike L · 11-02-2009, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

The article does not contain enough information to be able to reach an informed opinion about precisely what is going to be "banned". Typical tabloid journalism.

I'd put it less politely: The article is a load of codswallop.

gwynevans · 11-02-2009, 07:32 AM

From a look here, it appears to be an attempt to 'harmonise' the consumer rights in an attempt to boost cross-border trading. The point that the Express has noticed is that in the UK, we appear to have more consumer protection that the rest of the EU in certain areas and that's proposed to be reduced down to a 'common' level.

I was initially sceptical, but it looks to me as if they have a point this time. See http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/rights...e_table_en.pdf, particularly the bottom of pg 8. (Yes, the doc's subject to change, but at the moment, this is in it...)

"On the one hand, consumer- protection will decrease in all Member States (current directive obliges the trader to reimburse the consumer as soon as possible and always within 30 days). On the other hand, this new rule protects traders against dishonest consumers, which do not intend to return the product."

My emphasis - Frankly, I don't actually consider more protection for retailers as being a good enough reason to reduce the consumer protection.

Sweetpea · 11-02-2009, 07:39 AM

Ok, after reading it...

It looks like some countries have better consumer protection than others and people expect their "home" consumer protection with every EU based-shop, even if that shop's "home" country doesn't support it.

So, shop refunds won't be stopped (they are actually mentioned that the consumer has a right to that), but that it will be the same all over the EU. So, some countries will have to shorten theirs and others will have to lengthen it...

Sparrow · 11-02-2009, 07:53 AM

If I'd brought the Daily Express, I'd be demanding a shoddy goods refund.

Bald Eagle · 11-02-2009, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwynevans

I was initially sceptical, but it looks to me as if they have a point this time. See http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/rights...e_table_en.pdf, particularly the bottom of pg 8. (Yes, the doc's subject to change, but at the moment, this is in it...)

"On the one hand, consumer- protection will decrease in all Member States (current directive obliges the trader to reimburse the consumer as soon as possible and always within 30 days). On the other hand, this new rule protects traders against dishonest consumers, which do not intend to return the product."

My emphasis - Frankly, I don't actually consider more protection for retailers as being a good enough reason to reduce the consumer protection.

It says there "If the consumer withdraws, the proposal introduces a right for traders to withhold reimbursement until receiving the goods or getting evidence from the consumer of having sent the goods back."

So this would apply only if the consumer claims to have sent back the product but cannot prove it (or didn't send it at all).

Sweetpea · 11-02-2009, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bald Eagle

It says there "If the consumer withdraws, the proposal introduces a right for traders to withhold reimbursement until receiving the goods or getting evidence from the consumer of having sent the goods back."

So this would apply only if the consumer claims to have sent back the product but cannot prove it (or didn't send it at all).

I heard a news item yesterday that shops are missing out on a lot of money due to people withdrawing their CC payment. And not delivering their goods back... If it's to stop these things, I completely agree.

columbus · 11-02-2009, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparrow

If I'd brought the Daily Express, I'd be demanding a shoddy goods refund.

Quite agree, I picked this up from the BBC breakfast program this morning. I looks as though the Express was the only one covering it.

DawnFalcon · 11-02-2009, 09:55 AM

Okay, look at it again. This isn't one of the issues where a few countries are out of line, but a proposed rule change for them all.

MEP's have said that they're not going to do it, anyway. It's a non-starter... but there is the issue that the current six-year guarantee period is likely to be slashed somewhat, if offset by the proposed rule that if a faulty product is replaced or repaired, this resets that timer.

alecE · 11-02-2009, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparrow

If I'd brought the Daily Express, I'd be demanding a shoddy goods refund.

Which is why I *never* buy that rag!

ShortNCuddlyAm · 11-02-2009, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparrow

If I'd brought the Daily Express, I'd be demanding a shoddy goods refund.

I'd be too embarrassed to buy it! I suspect it would be less embarrassing buying something from the top shelf

11-02-2009, 07:32 AM	#7
gwynevans Wizzard Posts: 1,402 Karma: 2000000 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: UK Device: iPad 2, iPhone 6s, Kindle Voyage & Kindle PaperWhite	From a look here, it appears to be an attempt to 'harmonise' the consumer rights in an attempt to boost cross-border trading. The point that the Express has noticed is that in the UK, we appear to have more consumer protection that the rest of the EU in certain areas and that's proposed to be reduced down to a 'common' level. I was initially sceptical, but it looks to me as if they have a point this time. See http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/rights...e_table_en.pdf, particularly the bottom of pg 8. (Yes, the doc's subject to change, but at the moment, this is in it...) "On the one hand, consumer- protection will decrease in all Member States (current directive obliges the trader to reimburse the consumer as soon as possible and always within 30 days). On the other hand, this new rule protects traders against dishonest consumers, which do not intend to return the product." My emphasis - Frankly, I don't actually consider more protection for retailers as being a good enough reason to reduce the consumer protection. Last edited by gwynevans; 11-02-2009 at 07:36 AM.

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11-02-2009, 06:56 AM	#2
Sweetpea Grand Sorcerer Posts: 9,707 Karma: 32763414 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Krewerd Device: Pocketbook Inkpad 4 Color; Samsung Galaxy Tab S6	I don't get it... Who is asking for this? The shops? The consumers? Some bureaucrat who has never bought anything in his life? (he has employees to do that...) And what about consumer protection? Guarantees and such? I know shops are required by law to offer a 2-week money guarantee, without any strings attached. And that was implemented either this year or last year... I don't understand this one...

11-02-2009, 07:21 AM	#3
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	The article does not contain enough information to be able to reach an informed opinion about precisely what is going to be "banned". Typical tabloid journalism.

11-02-2009, 07:21 AM	#4
Direct Ebooks Hibernian eBook Warrior Posts: 184 Karma: 1264 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Cork, Ireland Device: Sony Reader	I think that this article is perfectly suited to the Dail Express' demographic. Euro-skeptics love this kind of thing - The big bad evil EU threatening everything that good ol' Blighty stands for. I'm no EU super-fan or anything, and this isnt just a British issue - I really despair the non-stop negativity and sensationalism in so called reputable papers. I genuinely feel that this kind of scare-mongering has had a direct influence on issues such as the recession as fear and negative stories impact on peoples actions and confidence in the economy. I really worry about the distinct lack of journalistic integrity these days. It must drive some reporters to near suicide having to cover Katie Prices latest breakdown or telling us how depressing our lives are. I like many people here I'm sure, hardly ever buy a newspaper any more. Apart from the depresseant effect of many of these rags, it's easier to pick and choose the news you want on the net. (rant over!)

11-02-2009, 07:39 AM	#8
Sweetpea Grand Sorcerer Posts: 9,707 Karma: 32763414 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Krewerd Device: Pocketbook Inkpad 4 Color; Samsung Galaxy Tab S6	Ok, after reading it... It looks like some countries have better consumer protection than others and people expect their "home" consumer protection with every EU based-shop, even if that shop's "home" country doesn't support it. So, shop refunds won't be stopped (they are actually mentioned that the consumer has a right to that), but that it will be the same all over the EU. So, some countries will have to shorten theirs and others will have to lengthen it...

11-02-2009, 07:53 AM	#9
Sparrow Wizard Posts: 4,395 Karma: 1358132 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: UK Device: Palm TX, CyBook Gen3	If I'd brought the Daily Express, I'd be demanding a shoddy goods refund.

11-02-2009, 09:55 AM	#13
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	Okay, look at it again. This isn't one of the issues where a few countries are out of line, but a proposed rule change for them all. MEP's have said that they're not going to do it, anyway. It's a non-starter... but there is the issue that the current six-year guarantee period is likely to be slashed somewhat, if offset by the proposed rule that if a faulty product is replaced or repaired, this resets that timer.

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