Update on an earlier story

desertgrandma · 10-26-2009, 09:27 PM

Kindle replaces paper books.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/educati...-library_N.htm

The comments afterward are fun to read, also.

By the way.......this was on the front page of USAToday.

Kali Yuga · 10-26-2009, 10:50 PM

I'm not entirely sure the Kindle was the best choice for this project, actually. Something that has support for a lending-library program (Sony?) might have been a better option, maybe a bunch of the cheaper Pocket editions.

Also, I'm surprised they haven't figured out they can go far beyond what's in the Amazon store. There's a ton of public domain books they can easily load onto the Kindles, they don't quite seem aware of it.

And I still think dropping $12k on the espresso machine was a mistake.

Billjr13 · 10-26-2009, 11:17 PM

Perfect, I am a school teacher and I have been screaming for this for years now. Every textbook publisher our distrct uses has a digital version of their books available we have cd's with the teacher's editions. I would love to see every student with a computer/reader and all digital textbooks. If you have ever seen some students trying to lug a bookbag full of books you would see how much more logical it would be. Plus as information changes instant updates coud be download right away

Hellmark · 10-26-2009, 11:41 PM

While I disgree with getting rid of the library, it is nice to see someone trying to push digital education.

As far as the coffee machine goes, they probably are charging the students for the coffee, and I bet you that it'll pay itself off in no time at all. The university I go to has to some extent done the same thing (except the library didn't get rid of all of its books, and those that it did are still available if you request in advance), and the coffee bar is fairly busy.

carlobee · 10-26-2009, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billjr13

Perfect, I am a school teacher and I have been screaming for this for years now. Every textbook publisher our distrct uses has a digital version of their books available we have cd's with the teacher's editions. I would love to see every student with a computer/reader and all digital textbooks. If you have ever seen some students trying to lug a bookbag full of books you would see how much more logical it would be. Plus as information changes instant updates coud be download right away

i would have to agree with this one. although, in my case, i would not really get rid of the library

kindlekitten · 10-27-2009, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

I'm not entirely sure the Kindle was the best choice for this project, actually. Something that has support for a lending-library program (Sony?) might have been a better option, maybe a bunch of the cheaper Pocket editions.

Also, I'm surprised they haven't figured out they can go far beyond what's in the Amazon store. There's a ton of public domain books they can easily load onto the Kindles, they don't quite seem aware of it.

And I still think dropping $12k on the espresso machine was a mistake.

it's my understanding that the push for the DX was SPECIFICALLY driven by the goal to have them be used in place of text books.

and one more time, can we say this with enthusiasm?

You Can Get Library Books On The Kindle!!!

LDBoblo · 10-27-2009, 04:58 AM

Once there are some good devices out there that can handle input and dynamic content, I think there'll be more vindication with regard to the school's choice. Kindles are a looong shot from optimal research devices though.

I think it's good that institutions are making better use of book collections and journal collections like JSTOR and what-not...I just disagree about their technology choices. I *could* see something like that stupid-looking Alex reader or the Entourage Edge thing or 3Qi-equipped netbooks, but Kindles?

zacheryjensen · 10-27-2009, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

it's my understanding that the push for the DX was SPECIFICALLY driven by the goal to have them be used in place of text books.

and one more time, can we say this with enthusiasm?

You Can Get Library Books On The Kindle!!!

How? And don't relate any pid reverse engineering hacks, as that is not "public" knowledge offered by Amazon about your device.

I mean really, I could get mobi format library books and remove the DRM but that's out of band, and technically illegal in my country.

So how are you getting library books on the Kindle without subverting Amazon's "protections" regarding mobi pid and drm?

zacheryjensen · 10-27-2009, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDBoblo

Once there are some good devices out there that can handle input and dynamic content, I think there'll be more vindication with regard to the school's choice. Kindles are a looong shot from optimal research devices though.

I think it's good that institutions are making better use of book collections and journal collections like JSTOR and what-not...I just disagree about their technology choices. I *could* see something like that stupid-looking Alex reader or the Entourage Edge thing or 3Qi-equipped netbooks, but Kindles?

Yes, I generally agree. I think the Kindle DX for a textbook replacement actually makes the most sense for K-12, actually 7-12, but whatever. The reason is that you are not supposed to be marking up the text books in those grades anyway. Assuming the text books were formatted with an eBook reader in mind with regards to chapter/section demarcation and chaptering, then it could be easily as effective as the paper books.

But to replace the "open" studying habits of higher education students where they own their books and have little reason (besides potential resale) to mark them up... well really any time you're studying anything seriously, it's good to be able to make annotations. Hell, the most common PC based PDF readers have annotation support, which is why it absolutely baffles me that anyone thought putting out an eBook reader "supporting" PDF without at least partial annotation support would be a good idea.

It's all about the usability, not the concept. Quick referencing of locations in the text is a must, and the ability to annotate as freely as possible given the device is also a must.

I'm sure it will happen at some point. I think the majority of students are rational enough to see the potential in digital texts. The last thing they need is to be tied to a specific device though so this whole Kindle experiment is a non-starter in my opinion.

Kali Yuga · 10-27-2009, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

it's my understanding that the push for the DX was SPECIFICALLY driven by the goal to have them be used in place of text books.

I concur that the form factor is better for textbooks. However, this particular school isn't replacing textbooks, they are replacing library books, so smaller sizes should be OK.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

You Can Get Library Books On The Kindle!!!

Incorrect.

At least, with the programs I'm thinking of. A few libraries have programs where the user can check out a book onto their own device for a brief period (14 days), after that the book "times out" and is available to loan out again. AFAIK they use Adobe DRM, so this is not an option for the Kindle.

And as I mentioned in my post, there's plenty of public domain books available for the Kindle, but those are not "library books."

Ankh · 10-27-2009, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Incorrect.

At least, with the programs I'm thinking of. A few libraries have programs where the user can check out a book onto their own device for a brief period (14 days), after that the book "times out" and is available to loan out again. AFAIK they use Adobe DRM, so this is not an option for the Kindle.

I am not certain if it is a part of core overdrive functionality, but my public library does offer books in mobipocket format,
like this one

Those do work on Kindle, don't they?

desertgrandma · 10-27-2009, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Incorrect.

At least, with the programs I'm thinking of. A few libraries have programs where the user can check out a book onto their own device for a brief period (14 days), after that the book "times out" and is available to loan out again. AFAIK they use Adobe DRM, so this is not an option for the Kindle.

And as I mentioned in my post, there's plenty of public domain books available for the Kindle, but those are not "library books."

If you belong to a library that carries mobipocket ebooks, you can download to your computer, run kindlefix, upload to your Kindle.

The books still close after the loan period. No harm, no foul. Yes, they are "library" books. My local library, Maricopa County, carries them.

Kali Yuga · 10-27-2009, 01:33 PM

Ankh: Nope, it's not supported on the Kindle. IIRC a Kindle can only read a Mobi file if it does not have DRM.

Kindlefix / Kindlepid are, from what I can tell, illegal methods to circumvent DRM. You may view this as a "no harm, no foul" situation; but it's still a hack and infringement, so I don't see how any school or library would use an approach like that.

Billjr13 · 10-27-2009, 06:12 PM

Just for the record I would not be for the dismantleing of real book libraries. Real Books are great. But I love the idea of ebook loans and etext for students to access through school. I don't care what device is used even a computer if that is what it takes right now. Just think instead of a still picture on a page you could run a video clip of speeches, experiments, planets, what ever the lesson is covering.
As for the library loans has anyone out there barrowed a book from the library on a Kindle? It looks like the school in the article is doing in now. Why can't it be done through the public library system.

kindlekitten · 10-27-2009, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Ankh: Nope, it's not supported on the Kindle. IIRC a Kindle can only read a Mobi file if it does not have DRM.

Kindlefix / Kindlepid are, from what I can tell, illegal methods to circumvent DRM. You may view this as a "no harm, no foul" situation; but it's still a hack and infringement, so I don't see how any school or library would use an approach like that.

since AMazon got spun up about another "quick fix" that used to be posted here and hasn't said diddle about this, I'm thinking it is not illegal

10-26-2009, 09:27 PM	#1
desertgrandma Enjoying the show.... Posts: 14,270 Karma: 10462843 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Arizona Device: A K1, Kindle Paperwhite, an Ipod, IPad2, Iphone, an Ipad Mini & macAir	Update on an earlier story Kindle replaces paper books. http://www.usatoday.com/news/educati...-library_N.htm The comments afterward are fun to read, also. By the way.......this was on the front page of USAToday.

10-27-2009, 04:58 AM	#7
LDBoblo Wizard Posts: 1,385 Karma: 16056 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Asia Device: Kindle 3 WiFi, Sony PRS-505	Once there are some good devices out there that can handle input and dynamic content, I think there'll be more vindication with regard to the school's choice. Kindles are a looong shot from optimal research devices though. I think it's good that institutions are making better use of book collections and journal collections like JSTOR and what-not...I just disagree about their technology choices. I could see something like that stupid-looking Alex reader or the Entourage Edge thing or 3Qi-equipped netbooks, but Kindles? Last edited by LDBoblo; 10-27-2009 at 05:01 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Want a ghost story for Halloween? Here's one I prepared earlier	williemeikle	Self-Promotions by Authors and Publishers	7	10-17-2010 09:01 PM
PRS-505 Earlier versions of Sony Reader Library?	captinlizi	Sony Reader	5	10-02-2010 04:38 PM
Earlier copy of Sony Connect Reader	digitalELPH	Sony Reader	11	09-10-2008 09:22 AM
Earlier Philips prototype looks a bit like the iLiad	Alexander Turcic	iRex	4	11-13-2006 08:23 AM
Three not asked earlier questions about iLiad	Malder1	iRex	9	08-14-2006 02:10 PM

10-26-2009, 10:50 PM	#2
Kali Yuga Professional Contrarian Posts: 2,045 Karma: 3289631 Join Date: Mar 2009 Device: Kindle 4 No Touchie	I'm not entirely sure the Kindle was the best choice for this project, actually. Something that has support for a lending-library program (Sony?) might have been a better option, maybe a bunch of the cheaper Pocket editions. Also, I'm surprised they haven't figured out they can go far beyond what's in the Amazon store. There's a ton of public domain books they can easily load onto the Kindles, they don't quite seem aware of it. And I still think dropping $12k on the espresso machine was a mistake.

10-26-2009, 11:17 PM	#3
Billjr13 Addict Posts: 357 Karma: 550002 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Colorado Device: Sony PRS 700 & 650	Perfect, I am a school teacher and I have been screaming for this for years now. Every textbook publisher our distrct uses has a digital version of their books available we have cd's with the teacher's editions. I would love to see every student with a computer/reader and all digital textbooks. If you have ever seen some students trying to lug a bookbag full of books you would see how much more logical it would be. Plus as information changes instant updates coud be download right away

10-26-2009, 11:41 PM	#4
Hellmark Wizard Posts: 2,592 Karma: 4290425 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Foristell, Missouri, USA Device: Nokia N800, PRS-505, Nook STR Glowlight, Kindle 3, Kobo Libra 2	While I disgree with getting rid of the library, it is nice to see someone trying to push digital education. As far as the coffee machine goes, they probably are charging the students for the coffee, and I bet you that it'll pay itself off in no time at all. The university I go to has to some extent done the same thing (except the library didn't get rid of all of its books, and those that it did are still available if you request in advance), and the coffee bar is fairly busy.

10-27-2009, 01:33 PM	#13
Kali Yuga Professional Contrarian Posts: 2,045 Karma: 3289631 Join Date: Mar 2009 Device: Kindle 4 No Touchie	Ankh: Nope, it's not supported on the Kindle. IIRC a Kindle can only read a Mobi file if it does not have DRM. Kindlefix / Kindlepid are, from what I can tell, illegal methods to circumvent DRM. You may view this as a "no harm, no foul" situation; but it's still a hack and infringement, so I don't see how any school or library would use an approach like that.

10-27-2009, 06:12 PM	#14
Billjr13 Addict Posts: 357 Karma: 550002 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Colorado Device: Sony PRS 700 & 650	Just for the record I would not be for the dismantleing of real book libraries. Real Books are great. But I love the idea of ebook loans and etext for students to access through school. I don't care what device is used even a computer if that is what it takes right now. Just think instead of a still picture on a page you could run a video clip of speeches, experiments, planets, what ever the lesson is covering. As for the library loans has anyone out there barrowed a book from the library on a Kindle? It looks like the school in the article is doing in now. Why can't it be done through the public library system.

Advert

Advert