Is it time to overhaul the Palm interface?

[Laurens]

Is it time to overhaul the Palm GUI? asks Kent Pribbernow of PocketFactory:

The Palm interface just works, and has done its job with great zeal since 1997. [...] And yet, as elegant and simple as the Palm interface is, it was originally designed years ago for monochrome organizer screens, and has remained largely unchanged since that time. [...] I think PalmSource should take this opportunity to borrow a page from Apple's playbook by starting over from the beginning. OSX still retains the classic Mac interface while building upon it with modern technologies like Quartz and Aqua. So too, I think, PalmSource should strive to achieve the same goal.

Interesting read, and the screens look great!

[Alexander Turcic]

PalmSource should hire Kent as their new GUI designer - his mockups are so good they almost feel real!

Btw, Apple's GUI guidelines can be found here.

[hacker]

Sigh... Yes, let's take a GUI that has been in use for 9 years, successful the entire time, and revamp it.

Let's burdon the authors with having to actually have graphic designer degrees and include fatter resources in their binaries.

I'm all for simplifying the interface, but turning it into XP (note the EVER INCREASING BUTTON SIZE) or OSX (no, we do NOT need transparency on a handheld PDA, ever) is not the right direction.

And I personally take issue with the "Tabs are the way to solve everything" mantra everyone is spewing these days. Tabs on a PDA are most-definitely NOT the best way to represent the interface. I tried one of those tabbed launchers, and when I was done sorting my applications, I had over 18 tabs. Great, so now how do you solve the problem of scrolling across a tab bar? I've seen launchers add an overflow dropdown, a chevron to scroll to the right and left, etc.

Nope, tabbed interfaces on a PDA is definitely the wrong direction.

And I'm saying this with conviction to prove a point: Without third-party support for your platform, its dead. Period.

Let the third-party developers write those spiffy launcher replacements (like they already do). Let them write the skinning applications (like they already do). Let them do the spiffy customization of the interface. Let the SDK behind the development be powerful enough to allow it, but don't enforce a particular design on users who may not even work that way.

If you drop a tabbed launcher on PalmOS by default, and people like myself don't like it, what do we do? Buy a non-tabbed one from a third party? Now you're back to Microsoft's paradigm: Provide a sub-par default, and get users to spend EVEN MORE money to bring it back to proper functionality.

Interesting ideas, but then again that's why concept cars never hit the streets. It gets people thinking outside the box... er, PDA. <grin>

[Laurens]

Hacker's "village idiot" rants are always good for (unintentional) comedic value!

[TadW]

Originally Posted by Laurens

Hacker's "village idiot" rants are always good for (unintentional) comedic value!

I always value his input and enjoy his presence. Welcome back, Hacker

[Bob Russell]

Yep - David is certainly never lacking a strong opinion!

While I may not always agree, it is always a thoughtful and interesting opinion, too.
And the diversity of viewpoints is definitely a great part of MobileRead.

I have mixed feelings about the article, though I haven't read it real carefully. It's a good one, because it's thought-provoking, but I'm not sure if I agree or not.

I like tabs, but not sure how they work on a hi-res screen (as opposed to hi-res+). And I also think that transparency is a good way to get more on a limited screen real estate.

But once you have the basic needed functionality and extensibility, I think that it's most important to make it easier for developers than to be flashy. I would hate to see the Zen of Palm go away and lose the simplicity of it for developer and user.

Tough call, though, because you also have consumers that don't know what's best for them. If you have a longer feature list and flashier images, consumers tend to want it even if it's not as good and won't work as well for them. You can't ignore the need for revenue.

I guess the only thing I can say definitively here is that I'm glad I'm not in charge of architecture, features and prioritization for PalmOS for Linux!

[Laurens]

IIRC, the Cobalt UI already had tabs, so this is not a new concept for PalmSource. As with most things in life, they should be used in moderation and not be rejected outright.

[Bob Russell]

Originally Posted by Laurens

IIRC, the Cobalt UI already had tabs, so this is not a new concept for PalmSource. As with most things in life, they should be used in moderation and not be rejected outright.

And oddly enough, I'm pretty sure Cobalt also had transparency.

[hacker]

Much of what I say, sprinkled with my opinion in some cases, isn't meant to enforce "The One Way", but more of a way to continue to spark discussion and opinion amongst others.

As many who know me personally can attest, I'm very flexible in what I accept, and I tend to get people thinking outside the box with the "inflexible" things I say.

That being said, there are places where tabs, transparency, anti-alias etc. are great, but without proper thought about their use (and misuse) on a PDA form factor, its just slapping together pieces without thinking it through.

One thing I am absolutely firm upon, is that the PalmOS-based PDA is not, and never was intended to, replace a desktop computer. Extending the desktop paradigm (replete with its many flaws) on a PDA, just so the environments are "similar" (i.e. PocketPC devices), is just silly.

[Pride Of Lions]

Originally Posted by hacker

Let the third-party developers write those spiffy launcher replacements (like they already do). Let them write the skinning applications (like they already do). Let them do the spiffy customization of the interface. Let the SDK behind the development be powerful enough to allow it, but don't enforce a particular design on users who may not even work that way.

I agree completely. Keep the "Zen of Palm" simple for people who aren't all super-techy (like my mom who does well with her Zire 71 and it's default launcher.) Our job as uber-geeks is to gently shepherd and guide the normal users towards our level of geekiness, not to ignore their relative inexperience and/or expect them to magically make the leap on their own.

The rest of us can go back to bickering about which third-party launcher is the best and has the most features... We should pay a little extra for added geekiness if we want the platform to survive (by staying simple enough to appeal to the most users) and we can support developers who listen to us (mostly.) If Palm (or whoever) had a super-geeky launcher, would they jump to our requests like some third-party developers do? Or would they ignore us until we get mad on all the forums and turn hostile?

[Laurens]

Originally Posted by hacker

Much of what I say, sprinkled with my opinion in some cases, isn't meant to enforce "The One Way", but more of a way to continue to spark discussion and opinion amongst others.

As many who know me personally can attest, I'm very flexible in what I accept, and I tend to get people thinking outside the box with the "inflexible" things I say.

The irony is that what you're saying is exactly about thinking "in the box". Essentially you're saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", which by definition is very limiting. The way I see it, change is a necessary part of the lifecycle of pretty much everything and that goes for the PalmOS UI as well.

[rmeister0]

Funny thing is, Apple introduced transparenty in OS X and then quietly dropped it. It didn't accomplish anything useful.

I have to agree with the hacker here. Perhaps do some gradient colors, smooth some things out if you have a display better than 160x160, but never forget that even a 640x480 is a constrained display. Don't waste the space.

[dwig]

Another Palm user on Hacker's side of this debate. Keep the OS as simple as practical. Bells and whistles for the sake of bells and whistles is "thinking inside the box" since that's the way the big guys are going. Palmsource should think outside the box and see the value in a lean, low resource OS.

Sure, add hooks for add-in enhancements. People like toys. The last thing I want is an OS that demands more of the processor forcing faster processors which eat batteries faster which ...

[mogui]

We have passed the 10th anniversary of the Palm OS. I have never had a Mac, but I have gathered that the Palm UI is a descendant of the Mac OS. I am on my 3rd Palm device. I wear them out. I do not wish for enhancements because my Palm does everything I need -- with some small qualification.

My lower powered PCs are usually relegated to entertainment duty, providing audio and video, plus a few simple occasional tasks. I have often wished for a Palm UI interface for these machines so they would be easier for my family to use. A Palm UI on top of Linux would be just fine.

There is a certain glory in taking a low powered microcontroller like the Motorola dragonball 68328 running at 16 MHz and running a GUI interface with a touch screen. The first Palm Pilot was a fine accomplishment. The interface does everything required of it. For those who care
http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/8...retrospective/ has a nice piece about the beginnings of the Palm.

When we have an interface that performs adequately, tabs and transparency add only a marginal improvement. To make the instrument take a great leap forward we need to add some startling new functionality.

Certainly we have added MP3s and video, plus loads more memory and processor speed. Wireless connection is a wonderful addition. But the innovation that will really change the way we use our pocket devices will be good quality voice recognition.

VoiceIt Technologies LLC has introduced voice recognition for the Treo and the Lifedrive. These applications include a dialer, a launcher and a security device. Other OSs are supported too. I am wishing for the day when I can do voice dictation on my Palm device and have it turn my words into print.

With good voice recognition the handheld could perform queries much as we do on Google today. We will move beyond the application oriented interface of the Palm screen, or the file oriented interface of Windows (yes, that is the way I usually use it), to a more friendly and useful information oriented interface that we can use without taking our eyes off the road.

With a built-in mic and camera, our future devices will be able to chronicle our lives and passions. Do you remember the pocket computer in Arthur C Clarke's 1976 novel, Imperial Earth? It was called a minisec, and it functioned as a video phone and PDA. The memory store in the device was sufficient for a lifetime, and one could store literally everything in it; audio, video, text -- the works!

Clarke's idea came to me the same year I had built my first home computer. I was still soldering discrete components to double-sided circuit boards! Yet I was confident that the future would bring me such a device. Thankfully, the future is almost here.

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by hacker

...the PalmOS-based PDA is not, and never was intended to, replace a desktop computer.

Which is exactly why I bought my first Pilot 5000 on sight in March of '06 (I'd been looking for exactly what it was for 2 years) and also precisely why I still use a Palm today. I replace them when I have to, not to get what (for me) amounts to more bragware.

I too, am with Hacker on this one.

I agree that "keep doing what you're doing" sounds like "in the box" thinking, but in a world where "change for change's sake" is the status quo, the notion of "if it ain't broke don't fix it" finds itself in the peculiar, and amusing position of being outside the box.