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Old 03-28-2024, 05:07 AM   #1
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Keep text together in EPUB

Hi

Is there a good metod of not getting single words or text rows getting of to next page in the EPUB? I have the source created in Indesign as a reflowable EPUB.
As you see on the attached image example - a lonely word shows up from a sentence from the previous page.
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Old 03-28-2024, 07:16 AM   #2
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The answer is “not really”.

For ePub2 you can set widows and/or orphans in your css but not all devices honor it. And I’m pretty sure they are completely deprecated in ePub3???

Basically you can put your preferences via the css but you can’t guarantee they are followed… and you certainly can’t control what screen size/margins/font size etc. the user chooses… unless you wish to torture yourself by delving into the hellish landscape of fixed-format. *shudder*

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Old 03-28-2024, 02:19 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Turtle91 View Post
The answer is “not really”.

For ePub2 you can set widows and/or orphans in your css but not all devices honor it. And I’m pretty sure they are completely deprecated in ePub3???
ePub3 inherits widows and orphans from CSS3.
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Old 03-28-2024, 04:34 PM   #4
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I cannot stand widows and orphans in an eBook. I'd rather have that lonely word on a single screen.
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Old 03-29-2024, 03:08 AM   #5
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I cannot stand widows and orphans in an eBook. I'd rather have that lonely word on a single screen.
What does it do that makes it not "standable"?
Tried widows and orphans=2 instead of =1 and it looks better.
Maybe I'm missing something?
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Old 03-29-2024, 06:50 AM   #6
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What does it do that makes it not "standable"?
Tried widows and orphans=2 instead of =1 and it looks better.
Maybe I'm missing something?
It doesn't look better. That's the problem with it. It makes then end of the pages look off. You can do things with a pBook to adjust things so the page does not look off. But with an eBook you don't have any options. So the end of the page is uneven and annoying.
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Old 03-29-2024, 08:41 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swepub View Post
What does it do that makes it not "standable"?
Tried widows and orphans=2 instead of =1 and it looks better.
Maybe I'm missing something?
That's why 2 is a default. It stops you getting a "lost" line or word.
A setting of 1 means do nothing! Hence 0 has no meaning.

Using 3 or 4 can be better for keeping text together but at expense of larger blank space at the bottom of a page.
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Old 03-29-2024, 08:42 AM   #8
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If you have an app/device that uses scrolling, rather than paging, this isn't even an issue.
If you are using paging then, in most cases, no one would even notice the slightly shorter previous page, Jon is just special.

In any case, do what you think is appropriate with widows and/or orphans...you can't control the final result anyway.
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Old 03-29-2024, 08:44 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
I cannot stand widows and orphans in an eBook. I'd rather have that lonely word on a single screen.
That IS a widow or orphan and it breaks the flow. Hence it's widows and orphans = 1, essentially do nothing.

It depend on if you hate extra white space at the bottom of a page.
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Old 03-29-2024, 08:47 AM   #10
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If you have an app/device that uses scrolling, rather than paging, this isn't even an issue.
Yes, but scrolling is so 2000+ years ago. I prefer paging and don't care if there is extra white space at the bottom of some pages.

But Jon edits his books so can set widows and orphans at 1 and be happy.
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Old 03-29-2024, 11:23 AM   #11
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Yes, but scrolling is so 2000+ years ago.
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Old 03-29-2024, 02:20 PM   #12
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Yes, but scrolling is so 2000+ years ago.
Scrolls are 2000+ years ago. I doubt unrolling a scroll to go to the next page was ever referred to as "scrolling."
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Old 03-29-2024, 02:53 PM   #13
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I've seen some eBooks with widows and orphans specifically set to 2 in CSS and some set to 1. I prefer them not to be set in the eBook just as no line-height and overall L/R margins set to 0.
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Old 03-29-2024, 04:28 PM   #14
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Scrolls are 2000+ years ago. I doubt unrolling a scroll to go to the next page was ever referred to as "scrolling."
No-one spoke English back then.
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Old 03-29-2024, 04:34 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
I've seen some eBooks with widows and orphans specifically set to 2 in CSS and some set to 1. I prefer them not to be set in the eBook just as no line-height and overall L/R margins set to 0.
Not set has different defaults based on properties:
Margins 0 is ignored by some ereaders (Amazon). Otherwise it does what you imagine. I don't know what default not setting it is likely.
No line-height is not zero, but means use font metrics
Not setting Windows and Orphans is often the same as setting it to 2, An explicit 1 means do nothing to layout.

Some renderers don't use standard defaults, which is why some people set everything, but I agree that they should mostly not set line-height.
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